Math...

[Dancin103]

What was posted is spot on. I only graduated in 2008 however, in my high school you had to learn how to do calculus, chemistry, and physics with out a calculator. If you couldn't, there was no mercy. Calculators need to be taken away and students need to be forced to learn the long hand way first, then learn their calculator, but only if it's necessary.

On a side note to the subject, I was playing blackjack at school with other students and they at one point had to use their cell phones to calculate what they had on the table. To me, that's sad.

Cass

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Dancin103

On a side note to the subject, I was playing blackjack at school with other students and they at one point had to use their cell phones to calculate what they had on the table. To me, that's sad.

Where is the point that we become dependent on the tools that we create and what are the reasons (read that - excuses) that we create for that dependency? And how do those reasons (read that - excuses) ripple out into society and the decisions made as a consequence or result?

Offering some food for thought...

Jane

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Dancin103

What was posted is spot on. I only graduated in 2008 however, in my high school you had to learn how to do calculus, chemistry, and physics with out a calculator. If you couldn't, there was no mercy. Calculators need to be taken away and students need to be forced to learn the long hand way first, then learn their calculator, but only if it's necessary.

This is how I was taught until 8th grade...

[Ether]

The purpose of computing is insight, not numbers

-- Richard Hamming

whip up a simple simulation, crunch a few billion numerical integration floating-point calculations in a matter of seconds, and instantly plot a time-graph of the results (in color!),

create a spreadsheet and play with the inputs to see how they affect the outputs,

instantly plot a complex non-linear equation to visualize its behavior and help find its roots,

do a monte-carlo simulation of a probability or statistics problem,

fit a model to a set of experimental data,

etc etc etc

Using calculators, and especially personal computers, opens up worlds of understanding for those who will use these tools to gain insight, and not as a substitute for thinking.

[gblake]

Originally Posted by Dancin103

...
On a side note to the subject, I was playing blackjack at school with other students and they at one point had to use their cell phones to calculate what they had on the table. ...

And you let them????

Is this what is known as a teachable moment?

Next time we are in the same town overnight, introduce me to those students so that I can assist with their education.

I'll teach them the importance of several branches of mathematics, the importance of being good at unassisted arthimetic, and help them figure out whether or not the universe is going to wait for them to wake up and smell the coffee.

I suspect they will remember the lesson for the rest of their lives, and in later years will consider the experience a beneficial one.

Blake
PS: Folks - Red dot me if you care to - Don't be shy - I'll pay attention, but I won't be upset

[FRC4ME]

Originally Posted by iCurtis

On the other hand, access to hands-on classes has definitely declined in my area. All of the schools in Midcoast Maine got rid of their wood/metal/auto shops in the '90s. There is still a vocational school, but its schedule is designed to fit with the lower level classes, not the college prep ones.

Interesting. My high school devoted almost 50% of its space to Career and Technical Education. We had an auto shop, a machine shop, a video production studio, a CISCO networking class, classes for all types of computer software...etc. These classes were often the saving grace of those students who hated math and science; they still found a passion and training in a useful technical skill in the CTE department.

Not everyone has a passion for math and science. But everyone has a passion for something, and everyone can become good at anything with enough motivation. The poster in the OP is comparing the brightest engineers in the world of forty years ago to the average schoolchild of today. That's an unfairly biased comparison. We still have NASA today, and the people who work there are still just as bright and passionate.

Also, the students of today have FIRST...

[Doctorwho]

Personally, I'm not that great at math and going into FIRST I didn't really care for it. But after working on designing and building a robot and seeing what practical application knowing Algebra, Geometry, and Calculus was and experiencing it first hand and after that I felt that I understood it better.

I think that the issue today is that students are pretty much educated in a vacuum, students learn about the theroy and how to perform it, but not so much the actual practice. Put it this way if you went into FRC and had someone explain how to build a robot without you personally laying hands on any tools, would you have any interest in it?

Going hands-on with a subject sometimes rather than just relying on a textbook is what can get a student to see the value in a subject, the Apollo Program wasn't just a bunch of guys sitting around a table discussing how one would go to the moon it was about actually achieving that goal.

On the slide rule subject, one of those has got to be easier than using some of my TI-83's higher functions

[Dancin103]

Originally Posted by gblake

And you let them????

Is this what is known as a teachable moment?

Next time we are in the same town overnight, introduce me to those students so that I can assist with their education.

I'll teach them the importance of several branches of mathematics, the importance of being good at unassisted arthimetic, and help them figure out whether or not the universe is going to wait for them to wake up and smell the coffee.

I suspect they will remember the lesson for the rest of their lives, and in later years will consider the experience a beneficial one.

Blake
PS: Folks - Red dot me if you care to - Don't be shy - I'll pay attention, but I won't be upset

Sorry this is so late, but yes I let them. I actually said put it away I will calculate for you. It was ridiculous. We we were not playing for money though. If we were then I would not have let that occur at all.

Cassie