FIRST Fundraiser: Selling LED "Lightbulbs"

[Ether]

Originally Posted by rsisk

@Ether I've read the documents too and the best I can tell, the $19.99 is a suggested price but teams can choose whatever price they want to sell the bulbs for.

Hmm. I don't know. The $6 is a subsidized price and I would have thought there would be a lower limit on the re-sell price below which eyebrows would be raised.

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by Ether

I think I've read all the literature, and I can't find anywhere that says what is the lowest price you are allowed to sell those $6 bulbs for. Anybody know ?

Agree, there does not appear to be a set minimum. They do state that they believe $19.99 is a competitive price. The $6 is a subsidized cost, and these bulbs are for sale via FIRST teams only.

[Richard Wallace]

Specs for the TESS T-67004S are at this site.

Click the link, then navigate to: Home > Products > LED Bulb(consumer type)

[Ether]

From the Tess website for the T-67004S

10,000 hours life (not 40,000)


-4F (not suitable for outdoor use in winter areas)

Do not use in enclosed fixtures

Do not use a dimmer

[David Brinza]

Originally Posted by IndySam

Lowe's has 8w Sylvanias at $19.98 now

Originally Posted by rsisk

I think that is OK, the spin is: For one more penny, you can support an awesome robotics team, and save the hassle of going to Lowe's to buy your bulbs. Or you can save a penny at Lowe's... your call.

The FIRST suggested price ($19.99) includes the sales tax.

Still a bargain AND a "feel good" purchase for customers.

Are there any 501(c)(3) non-profits selling these? Are there any special considerations for reporting?

[artdutra04]

Originally Posted by Ether

And they don't like being cycled, and they don't like cold temperatures (like outdoors), and they are toxic, and they are all made in China.

Doing some quick calculations:

Approximately 0.0234 mg of mercury is released into the atmosphere per kilowatt hour of electricity generated in a coal power plant. Over a 7500 hour lifespan of a bulb, a 100 Watt incandescent bulb will use 750 kW of electricity. In the US, 44.9% of that electricity came from coal power sources in 2009. Assuming this is true for the energy used by the light bulb, that means 336.75 kW came from coal sources, which means ~7.88mg is mercury was released into the atmosphere.

The equivalent CFL bulb only uses 23 Watts of electricity but contain between 1.5mg and 4mg of mercury (newer CFLs average between 1.5mg and 2.5mg, while the older ones have ~4mg. By comparison, older mercury thermometers contain about 500mg of mercury). Over the same 7500 hour life period, it would cause the release of ~1.81mg of mercury into the atmosphere via coal-powered electricity generation.

Even if the CFL bulb was not recycled and somehow had all of its mercury released into the atmosphere, it would have caused the release of ~5.81mg of mercury into the atmosphere, a ~26% reduction in mercury emissions when compared to incandescent bulbs.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Ether

And they don't like being cycled, and they don't like cold temperatures (like outdoors), and they are toxic, and they are all made in China.

Completely anecdotal evidence here but I've run CFLs in sub zero temperatures just fine. They don't last quite as long but it's still a cost savings over incandescent bulbs.

[DonRotolo]

For what it's worth: My package of Phillips DuraMax incandescent 40W bulbs claims 475 lumens. So this LED bulb we're discussing is about a 40 W equivalent.

Compare: CFL vs LED
Efficency: 9W vs 7W source.
Time to on: Several seconds vs Instant
Cost: $2 vs $25
Life: 10k Hours vs 50k hours source
Mercury: Little vs Less
Dimmable?: Some vs Yes
Cold OK? Barely vs Better

Me, personally, I'm a big fan of LEDs (not just in light bulbs, either) so I'll still spend $25 for the equivalent of $10 worth of CFLs.

[Ether]

Originally Posted by Don Rotolo

Me, personally, I'm a big fan of LEDs ... so I'll still spend $25 for the equivalent of $10 worth of CFLs.

ditto that.

[Mike AA]

I agree with those saying the $25 LED is worth the money comparing lumens to watts. I am currently sitting under 4 LED flood bulbs from Lights of america which were said to be 45watt equivalent and 1 20watt equivalent. Here at my keyboard I can easily see all the keys and anything I write and have on my desk or under the monitor shelf, these are putting out nearly the same light as my 65 watt equivalent CFLs. I have CFLs in every other light fixture in my house but slowly changing them as I get a few spare bucks.

We at Menards just started carrying some Toshiba LED bulbs with a rating of 350 lumens? for about $17, and contain no mercury, these look just like a regular light bulb except they have a heatsink at the base, there are even replacements for those pesky 50 watt halogen track lights available. I am beginning to wonder if the LEDs are being rated/measured the same as CFLs or incandescents, if you look at the area the bulb we have on display lights up it seems more like a 60watt equivalent, but this may be due to the whiter color compared to the softer incandescent.

By the way, the incandescents will be slowly phased out. Already we have seen the 75 watt indoor R-30 flood converted to 65 watt, the 75 and 150 watt outdoor flood converted to halogen only, mercury vapor bulbs were phased out recently and many companies have stopped making incandescent <EDIT> Phillips makes a bulb that is 30% more efficent called the Halogena Energy Saver</edit> Ever so slowly we will see the lumens per wall increase with LED technology getting more efficient.

little food for thought here

[Ether]

Originally Posted by Mike AA

By the way, the incandescents will be slowly phased out. Already we have seen the 75 watt indoor R-30 flood converted to 65 watt, the 75 and 150 watt outdoor flood converted to halogen only, mercury vapor bulbs were phased out recently and many companies have stopped making 100 watt bulbs and made them brighter using only 90watts. [/b]

It wasn't clear from the context since you mentioned both mercury vapor and incandescent in the paragraph: are you referring to incandescent bulbs (in the bolded part)?

And if so, what companies are you referring to and what are the lumen ratings and life of their 90-watt bulbs?

[PAR_WIG1350]

LED bulbs would be considerably cheaper if we could adapt to an environment lit with red light.

[MarkoRamius1086]

If nobody minds I would like to put my two cents worth in...

I was in the stands of North Carolina when Dean Kamen announced the new Cree LED. He made about a two minute speech about the product and its pro's, and then someone turned the little bugger on. Perhaps it was the angle that I saw it at (highly doubtful) or I was just really sensitive that day, but if anyone else on here who was at North Carolina 2010 can testify that that little LED was practically BLINDING, it would be great. Let me just put it this way, it was hard to look at Dean when that thing got power.

So from seeing the luminoscity capabilities of that unit (idk if that was a prototype or a showcase piece, or the real deal production) I have little reason to believe that it will have problems selling because of lighting issues.

[dtengineering]

Originally Posted by MarkoRamius1086

I was in the stands of North Carolina when Dean Kamen announced the new Cree LED. He made about a two minute speech about the product and its pro's...

Dean Kamen made a two minute speech? Now THAT is significant!

Jason

[Kims Robot]

Hmm one LED light bulb or 60+ GS cookies and have the Mass Saves program replace all $600 worth of my lightbulbs for free... Unfortunately MA teams are probably better off trying to sell cookies