A Corrupt FIRST?

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by EricH

There's a spotlight from Koko Ed that says, in part, (emphasis mine)

Is there individuality? Yes. But if one member of a group is acting really badly--or really nice--that behavior reflects on the entire group if that member is showing that he or she is part of that group. Disclaimer or no, it will reflect at least to some extent. There have been times on CD that I have seen someone have to try to mend damage caused by someone else on their team, because they know that if somebody doesn't present the other side, the team will gain a reputation that they don't want to have.

Reputations, particularly team reputations, are tough to build and very easy to destroy.

When someone on a team does something wrong they don't say "Uh oh! Jimmy was rude to that judge. They say" Check out that kid on (insert team name here) acting nasty to that judge. People identify you by your affiliation first and foremost. One thing we always tell our kids if you are planning on doing something stupid while wearing our team shirt do us a favor and remove it and withdraw from the team because not only are you disrespecting our team and our long and illustrious history and the hard work of the members who worked so hard and so long to build this team's reputation but you are also disrespecting Wilson Magnet High School, Xerox Corporation, Rochester, New York and own family and friends.
So if you are going to pop off about something as volatile as this make sure you have your facts straight so you are not just sullying more than just your own reputation.

[czeke]

I seem to recall, several years ago, at the Wisconsin Regional, there was a team from Muskegon, here, and they barely had enough mouney to pay for their entry fee, much less for transportation and hotel. Their team was small, say abour 6 or 8 students. I spoke to their adult coach, and he told me that they couldn't generate enough local, financial support, for the team. I'm not certain, if this was your team, or not, or even if they survived to compete again. It's very unfortunate, when you can't even get minimum financial support ( or even volunteer mentor support ) for your team. I know the old adage, " If you can move, you can compete ", but as we all know, if all you can do, " is move " you'll be competing to stay out of last place.

[Andy Grady]

In response to this and every other thread similar to this one in existence, you do not realize how good you have it. Let me put a few things in perspective for you, from someone who has been in this thing for 17 years.

When I was a student...

1. The kit of parts was heavily limited. You could only use parts available from the kit itself, or Small Parts Inc.

2. THERE WAS NO FTC OR FLL

3. For the first year, there was no music playing, no lights, nothing but a large projector screen with a clock.

4. There were no resources available to buy gearbox assemblies, omni wheels, etc...

5. The control system wasn't nearly as sophisticated as it is now.

6. The playing field was not standardized for ease of use from year to year.

7. There was no NASA grant. There was hardly any grants at all...which means teams had to find money the hard way, and if you think finding money is hard now, you should have seen it back then!

8. The championship was not held in a massive sports dome.

9. There was only 1 regional my first year involved...before that, there were no regionals and championships was held at a high school gym!

In essence, FIRST has grown from a small, highly restricted competition held in a high school gymnasium, to a major event held in arenas, convention centers, and ultimately a massive sports dome. The materials you can use are so wide open that you have endless creativity compared to what I had as a student. Sensors, cameras, C programing language, wifi gaming adapters...we had NONE of that. We built robots out of plywood and PVC, threw wheels on it, and drove it around a field that was half the size that you have now.

FIRST has worked hard from year one to find ways to make this program better and better for those who are involved. For all those special things that
you see at a competition these days, for the Kitbots you are handed every year (WE HAD TO BUILD EVERY DRIVE TRAIN!!!!!), for each and every upgrade that is revealed, for each game you see unveiled before your eyes, you need one thing...MONEY. Yes...FIRST is expensive and for good reason. Unless you want to see Einstein held back at the Memorial High School Gym in Manchester every year, you are going to have to shell out some cash. I live in an area so saturated by FIRST teams, that we are literally running out of companies to sponsor us. The fact of the matter is, we find a way to get the money. We have been finding a way to get money for twenty years. There are tons of grants, tons of companies willing to donate money, space, or otherwise, and tons of different fundraising methods you can use.

In short...where the money goes is right in front of your eyes, and you just don't see it. I suggest instead of complaining about what FIRST does right or what FIRST does wrong in its own business model, that you go out and take a proactive stance in trying to fund your team. If you don't like the rules that FIRST gives or don't like spending the money, I assure you that there are alternatives out there. Go find them. Otherwise...suck it up!

Just my opinion.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by gblake

To Chris, Jane and everyone else in that camp - I respond with a polite but firm NO

Individuallity does exist, in addition to group affiliations

If you would like to yell at Chris, Blake, fine. Please don't use bolded and enlarged lettering when addressing me in a serious discussion.

Jane

[keehun]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

YES.

By affiliating yourself with a team, you are representing them at all times, as you are a member and part of that team. You can't quit your team to say something, then join back on it. The words are tied to you, and you're tying yourself to your team.

If you have ideas you don't want to be affiliated with your team, either don't say them or don't be on that team. You are a constant representative of your team.

Chris, that's a little outlandish.

Given, he did not put a disclaimer that none of his views are associated with his team, but I think we can let that one go.

A lot of the things I put on here are my personal views and not necessarily of my team. I don't confer with my team mentors about everything I put on here. (Probably close to none, if not a post-fact discussion)

[the man]

Originally Posted by keehun

Chris, that's a little outlandish.

Given, he did not put a disclaimer that none of his views are associated with his team, but I think we can let that one go.

There actually was a disclaimer. First post.

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by the man

You shold know that i no longer have mentors due to the unavalability of money to our past frc program. Are you sugesting that I am not entitled to my opinion? Dose every idea i have belong or represent my team? If so then we have all done things, thought thoughts, and other wise disrespected our teams.

Jacob,

No, I don't know this. You will have to explain what has happened to your team.

Yes, I am suggesting that as a member of an FRC team and of the FIRST community, when posting in CD, I am very aware of how my posts will impact, affect, or reflect on my team and on the FIRST community. It is part of the bigger picture thinking, Jacob.

FRC is very expensive. Travel to distant competitions is very expensive. Building a sustainable team is difficult and takes much more work than building a robot that will compete for one FRC season. It's not glamorous but it is what will keep the team together and able to compete. If FRC is too expensive due to finances, there are other robotics programs that are available to compete in. If a team is struggling financially and/or with sustainability issues, that does not make FIRST corrupt - it just makes it more difficult to compete in.

Jane

[the man]

Are team was successful in the regionals we attended. Until our school told us they would no longer fund us. We all wanted to continue in FRC. We fun-rose all summer, attempted to no avail to gain sponsors. The cost was just to great. So we decided to try FTC instead. which i must say is not nearly as much fun or creative.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by the man

Are team was successful in the regionals we attended. Until our school told us they would no longer fund us. We all wanted to continue in FRC. We fun-rose all summer, attempted to no avail to gain sponsors. The cost was just to great. So we decided to try FTC instead. which i must say is not nearly as much fun or creative.

Ok, are there any other teams near you? Because I would bet my bottom dollar that if you and a few head mentors from your team went and asked them if you guys could combine teams, they would allow you to do so with open arms.

[the man]

Originally Posted by dodar

Ok, are there any other teams near you? Because I would bet my bottom dollar that if you and a few head mentors from your team went and asked them if you guys could combine teams, they would allow you to do so with open arms.

Join a team with more then 50 other people? Ya im shure ill learn a lot. But really I have no desire to join a large team nor dose anyone else that was on the team.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by the man

Join a team with more then 50 other people? Ya im shure ill learn a lot. But really I have no desire to join a large team nor dose anyone else that was on the team.

Beggers can't be choosers. If you cannot come to some agreement to join with another team, ask if you can use any help or space available to sustain your team for another year till you guys can get back on your feet.

[the man]

Originally Posted by dodar

Beggers can't be choosers. If you cannot come to some agreement to join with anohter team, ask if you can use any help or space available to sustain your team for another year till you guuys can get back on your feet.

We had no desire to "borrow" money from another team. knowing we couldn't pay them back at all, or for a large amount of time.

[dodar]

Originally Posted by the man

We had no desire to "borrow" money from another team. knowing we couldn't pay them back at all, or for a large amount of time.

Never said "borrow" money. I said that you could become sister-teams and co-exist with each other while being different teams. Think 254/968 but working under the same roof.

[Bryan Herbst]

I apologize if I misunderstood that part. Though I am sure you could find engineers willing to mentor an FTC team as well.

Also keep in mind that local teams are good for quite a number of things. Though merging with another team may not be optimal, chances are there are teams near you with quite a bit of experience gaining sponsors. Judging by the fact that your are from Michigan, I would guess that there are probably at least 10 teams within driving distance that would be willing to lend you a hand.

[the man]

Ok so trying to start a team back up 7 or 8 days before kick off is not what i started this thread for, nor do i desire to attempt this.