FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]

[EricH]

Originally Posted by southgirl

Rule question b/c I can't access the FIRST site for some reason:
With the scoring pegs, will the second logo on a row double the entire peg row score, or just that second row?

Also, what is the limit on how high the minibots can be placed on the tower?

Rules answer:

For the minbot height limit,

Originally Posted by Game Section 3

<G20> ROBOTS/HOSTBOTS may not contact their own TOWERS above the DEPLOYMENT LINE. Violation: PENALTY for contact. TOWER is disabled if MINIBOT is DEPLOYED above the DEPLOYMENT LINE.

Originally Posted by Game Section 2, <2.2.5>, third paragraph

The POST extends upwards from the center of the BASE. The POST is constructed from a piece of 1.75-inch diameter (O.D.) steel pipe. The DEPLOYMENT LINE is located on the POST, approximately 18 inches above the top surface of the BASE. The DEPLOYMENT LINE is marked on the POST with black permanent marker to avoid significant changes to the surface properties of the POST (other than color).

FYI, this is why the encrypted rules are released.

Starting a new thread: click that purple logo, find the appropriate subforum in the list, and click the "new thread" button.

Scoring: Scoring grids are independent, as near as I can make out.

[ShortBang]

5.3.5 Coopertition Score (CS)
Any borrowed MINIBOT which scores points by legally triggering the TARGET during the MATCH receives one (1) Coopertition point for the FRC TEAM registered for the event that is affiliated with the MINIBOT.
The total number of Coopertition points earned by a TEAM throughout the qualification matches will be their Coopertition score.

Now the way I read this, your team can lend a minibot even when not competing?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Vikesrock

Easy enough to have 1 member of your drive team responsible for checking stickers before each match as part of your pre-match routine.

I can think of 2 separate incidents where teams did not pass inspection due to being stubborn, and refusing to change their robots to comply with the rules, or something similar. In that case per missing team, 2*7 or 2*10 red cards go to other teams, just because the team hasn't passed and refuses to pass inspection.

Those teams lose a match of qualifying.

I think the intent is that if a team is later found to be in violation (i.e., plays and then is re-inspected for X and fails), then the red cards. But that's not what the rule says. The rule says that if Team X has not passed inspection and participates in a match (sends a human player or minibot that has passed), then the entire alliance is DQ'd.

[Dargel1625]

Originally Posted by EricH

I REALLY hate the inspection rule.

For reference, <T03>:


Unless no-show teams are given a bye, there are going to be quite a few red cards handed out early on. And if there aren't enough inspectors to go around, there could be some teams hurt unintentionally.

I see why it's there, but the entire alliance?????? The penalty is TOO MUCH! You've never been DQ'd because of what your partner did before, except in eliminations!

From the way I'm understanding it, there won't be penalties for no-show teams. It states that if it is found out after a match starts that a robot hasn't passed inspection, the penalty will be handed down. If I am reading it correctly I think the only situation in which this rule would be enforced is if a robot didn't pass inspection and went onto the field anyway, because no-show teams would be known before the match starts.

[katiebelle]

Originally Posted by EricH

I REALLY hate the inspection rule.

For reference, <T03>:


Unless no-show teams are given a bye, there are going to be quite a few red cards handed out early on. And if there aren't enough inspectors to go around, there could be some teams hurt unintentionally.

I see why it's there, but the entire alliance?????? The penalty is TOO MUCH! You've never been DQ'd because of what your partner did before, except in eliminations!

In qualification matches, red cards are robot-specific. So only the specific team would recieve a red card. Only during finals matches would a red card ever be issued to an entire alliance, as I understand.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by katiebelle

In qualification matches, red cards are robot-specific. So only the specific team would recieve a red card. Only during finals matches would a red card ever be issued to an entire alliance, as I understand.

You didn't read the rule, did you? You don't receive qualification and ranking points in eliminations. In other words, an elimination red card is being applied in qualifications for the case where a robot is not inspected.

[apalrd]

After reading the rules, we talked strategy and design (which is secret now.)

That said:
I really like the BaneBots thing (using up to 4 total BB motors, of any of the 4 types) although I think the RS550's will be the most popular since they have the highest power output (~250 watts, according to the FIRST specs). I also sorta like the uber-powerful FP motor (~290) watts), and fear for its life in competition (POOF!), although there is currently no source for it (AM dosen't have it).

I like the multiple but similar game pieces. We are very, very glad that our 2007 robot still works perfectly (the arm at least) because we just fixed it up for a parade. That said, the tubes in 2007 were all around bigger than these (the tubes at least) and the center diameter is much larger then than the triangles and squares now.

I like the mini-bot.

(now back to drawing robot mechanism ideas on paper)

[Leav]

Originally Posted by apalrd

We are very, very glad that our 2007 robot still works perfectly (the arm at least) because we just fixed it up for a parade.

not sure what you mean by this, since you later mention thinking about ideas... just FYI: using mechanisms from old robots is not allowed. (some stuff is allowed, but I won't interpert the rules here.)

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by Leav

not sure what you mean by this, since you later mention thinking about ideas... just FYI: using mechanisms from old robots is not allowed. (some stuff is allowed, but I won't interpert the rules here.)

Oh darn!
And here I was thinking we could just bag our 2007 robot and take a nice seven week break til FLR.
Guess it's time to get to brainstorming.

[apalrd]

Originally Posted by Leav

not sure what you mean by this, since you later mention thinking about ideas... just FYI: using mechanisms from old robots is not allowed. (some stuff is allowed, but I won't interpert the rules here.)

Our 07 bot manipulates tubes, similar to this year's game pieces. We can look at what it did to score, and see how well it works for the new game pieces (which are very similar to the 07 tube).

We wouldn't use it, just look at how it works and see if we can use the stuff we learned back then again now.

That robot's arm is built of .030 aluminum tube, which is very thin. Analysis said it was very close to breaking, and after about 10 hours of play time it did. We repaired it, but it is still very, very close to catastrophic failure.

[southgirl]

Can someone please post the KOP inventory list for veteran teams because I still cannot access the FIRST site

[Don Wright]

Eric,

I think they mean if a robot competes on the field that didn't pass inspection, then it's a red card. If the robot didn't pass inspection and doesn't go on the field, no red card.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Don Wright

Eric,

I think they mean if a robot competes on the field that didn't pass inspection, then it's a red card. If the robot didn't pass inspection and doesn't go on the field, no red card.

What they mean, yes, I agree. But it's not what they say. If a TEAM participates (i.e., humans show up) and the robot does not, under the current writing of the rules, all three teams get a red card. All it takes is for the human player to show up, and there are three red cards, under the written rules.

It's an easy fix, too: Replace "TEAM" with "TEAM's ROBOT" the first two times it appears in that rule. Boom, the team can show up and participate without the robot, and no red cards are issued. (Though the alliance is still at a disadvantage.) Also, due to the change back to W-L-T rankings, it shouldn't be as big of an issue as this last year.

[Koko Ed]

My initial thought was teams that excelled at handling and placing tubes in 2007 are going to dominate this game.

Also in a nod back to 2005 there is a "no-fly" zone on the field where if a team loses it's mind and does the unthinkably stupid and goes defend a robot placing tubes in their home zone they will get a debilitating penalty for their actions. Now more than ever teams need to make sure not only they know the rules but even more importantly their partners know the rules.

[pacoliketaco]

anyone else saying thank you that team 25 was featured in the 2007 behind the design book? i sure know thats what i first thought of when i saw this. I dont see much reason to do anything but that, have a lift on the front and the minibot deployment on the back.