FRC 2011: Logomotion [Initial Impressions]

[johannart]

I like this game. Or should I say, I prefer it over last year's. I hated the scoring system last year and it took us forever to think things up and our solutions stunk. This year is easier as it reflects on an older robot and introduces a mini-bot which is easier than a hook. I'm sure there is going to be an increase in need to communicate with your alliance to make use of the uber-toobs.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by johannart

I like this game. Or should I say, I prefer it over last year's. I hated the scoring system last year and it took us forever to think things up and our solutions stunk. This year is easier as it reflects on an older robot and introduces a mini-bot which is easier than a hook. I'm sure there is going to be an increase in need to communicate with your alliance to make use of the uber-toobs.

So let me get this straight you hated last years game because your robot was no good? My favorite game was 2004 and our robot fell over all the time. The GDC can't be held responsible for your lack of success.
And the lame ranking system from last year is being used for this game as well.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

And the lame ranking system from last year is being used for this game as well.

Have I misread something?

--------------

General impression:

Autonomous is critical. Double-double score for logo-toprack-UBERTUBE? Yes, please!

Endgame is critical. Potential +50 points for the winning two MINIBOTs? Yes, please!

The rest of the game is critical. Potential for lots and lots of points by capitalizing on the autonomous successes, playing hard defense, and having great robots? Yes, please?

I don't mean to sound like a fanboi, but a fanboi I am! Logomotion makes all three stages of the game absolutely critical to success... As well they should be!

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

And the lame ranking system from last year is being used for this game as well.

Ed, don't make me tell you to go read the manual. It's W-L-T, then ranking score (2X unpenalized loser's for the winner, penalized loser's for the loser, 2x alliance score for a tie).

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by EricH

Ed, don't make me tell you to go read the manual. It's W-L-T, then ranking score (2X unpenalized loser's for the winner, penalized loser's for the loser, 2x alliance score for a tie).

Don't worry he does queuing

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by EricH

Ed, don't make me tell you to go read the manual. It's W-L-T, then ranking score (2X unpenalized loser's for the winner, penalized loser's for the loser, 2x alliance score for a tie).

oops.
my bad

[Travis Hoffman]

Originally Posted by EricH

Ed, don't make me tell you to go read the manual. It's W-L-T, then ranking score (2X unpenalized loser's for the winner, penalized loser's for the loser, 2x alliance score for a tie).

5.3.4 Ranking Score (RS)

Each TEAM on the winning ALLIANCE will receive a number of ranking points equal to the unpenalized score (the score without any assessed penalties) of the losing ALLIANCE.

Each TEAM on the losing ALLIANCE will receive a number of ranking points equal to their final score (with any assessed penalties).
In the case of a tie, all participating TEAMS will receive a number of ranking points equal to their ALLIANCE score (with any assessed penalties).

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman

5.3.4 Ranking Score (RS)

Look directly above you at Qualification Score (QS)

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

Look directly above you at Qualification Score (QS)

I think Travis is just pointing out that Eric incorrectly listed the ranking score. It's just the losers unpenalized score for the winners, the loser's penalized score for the losers, and your score for a tie, as opposed to having multipliers like it had in the past.

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by synth3tk

Yeah, what if they can't afford free?

http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles...ome%20Page.pdf

Free works great... except for the teams outside of the continental US.. you know, the ones who have to deal with getting their KOP 3rd week because it is held up in customs? The ones who have to pay to import all their COTS parts? There is probably not a country with an FRC team that doesn't have a local metal supplier but I would bet you there are a few that don't have a local FTC kit supplier.

I like the game, if they clear up the 60" discrepancy the way I hope they do I will be content. I love multiple game pieces. I love we will be able to score without being hit constantly. I love that there is still defense. The Minibots (FTC politics aside) are a welcome addition, FRC endgames were getting a little stale imho. In short, I haven't found a major flaw yet but I'll wait until the first set of updates and some Q&A before passing final judgement (on the rules, I can't judge gameplay until I see Einstein).

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

So let me get this straight you hated last years game because your robot was no good? My favorite game was 2004 and our robot fell over all the time. The GDC can't be held responsible for your lack of success.
And the lame ranking system from last year is being used for this game as well.

The ranking system is not being used this year besides as a tiebreaker to W-L-T

[Seathan93]

Initial impressions of the game from myself and some of my fellow team members when the video started was, "eh seems a bit uninteresting." Then the minibots came out and we were all excited.

I don't like that FIRST is making it all about the FIRST brand. I get why they are, but Dean Kamen can't just say "it's not just about the robots" as an excuse as to why they're doing shameless branding. The whole point of last year was that FIRST was expanding to make it a "spectator sport" and I feel they're going backwards with this game.

Personally I liked last year's game. The scoring system for seeding points was a little funky, but it was very enjoyable to watch. Of course, our robot basically didn't work at all, but we failed in a spectacular display of hisses as our shield, the only working part, popped open.

That being said, the inability to defend once a team gets in the "safety zone" and the (seemingly obvious) strategy that people will just go from slot to scoreboard, makes the game a bit uninteresting. I think the minibot race at the end will be the most exciting bit of the game.

I hope I'm wrong, like I was with lunacy, but that's to be decided. Personally I liked Overdrive or Breakaway the best, but hopefully Logomotion will be just as enjoyable.

[apalrd]

Originally Posted by Seathan93

...people will just go from slot to scoreboard, makes the game a bit uninteresting.

Remember, that is a distance of over 50 feet each way, in oncoming traffic.

[Cyberphil]

Originally Posted by apalrd

Remember, that is a distance of over 50 feet each way, in oncoming traffic.

I understand what you are hinting to, but I can see a majority of people interpreting this in a very different way.

If I know 33 at all, I know you guys will have a strong strategy, and will make sure it works, and I am inclined to think the same way you are at this point.

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by Seathan93

I don't like that FIRST is making it all about the FIRST brand. I get why they are, but Dean Kamen can't just say "it's not just about the robots" as an excuse as to why they're doing shameless branding. The whole point of last year was that FIRST was expanding to make it a "spectator sport" and I feel they're going backwards with this game.

If they weren't doing it for the 20th anniversary, they would for the 25th. The "Triangle, Circle and Square as Game Pieces in a single Game" has been thrown around to death and I'm really glad they are doing it. One reason, is to get the idea out there and years beyond this the notion won't be brought up again, at least for another 4-5 years.

The only Branding part I see is the use of FTC parts for the Mini-Bot. I don't think it could ever be a problem that FIRST is going to celebrate FIRST for all that FIRST has done for those who have found great success with FIRST. I understand the nausea of having to suffer though more speeches, but as I got older I found the speeches to actually be relevant and true. It would just help if they were more like Tooth.

As for being a spectator sport, I think simply telling a spectator that the goal of the game is to "create as many FIRST logos as possible" would be enough to get someone into the game...and what greater spectacle is there in the Mini-bot race? I think FIRST is ok with keeping everyone pumped for watching games they aren't in.