<R11> Dimension wrong?

[davidfv]

Originally Posted by Paul Copioli

All,

Ok so I was freaking out last night about this ridiculous restriction, but I noticed a discrepancy in the manual.

The Thunderchickens design in metric so we were looking at the metric dimensions in the table in <R11>. You English system designing teams have to stay within a 60" cylinder, but us metric designing teams get 213.4cm! For those of you that are reaching for your calculators, that is the equivalent of 84"!

In all seriousness, I will post a Q&A when it is up on Wednesday to ask which dimension is the real dimension. I am hoping for the 213.4cm.

Paul

AS we all are Paul. Guess the GDC may need to get new calculators.

David

[pfreivald]

Yet another implication of this rule is that many/most teams are going to need to retract whatever manipulator they have before DEPLOYING the MINIBOT, else they'll be in violation of the rule.

[Chris Fultz]

Here is a quick pdf of a power point slide (my favorite design tool ).

Assuming the rule is 60" and the metric equivalent:

For a "long" oriented robot any arm can only extend about 18" from the front of the robot (not simply 22 = 60 - 38, due to the "cylinder").

For a "wide" oriented robot, any arm can only extend about 23" (again, not simply 32" = 60-28).

Add the bumpers and it is even more of a challenge.

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

Add the bumpers and it is even more of a challenge.

Unlike previous years' cylinder rules, the BUMPERS are excluded from the measurement this year - thank goodness if the measurement is really 60 inches. See <R11-B>.

[mathking]

We hosted a 23 team FLL tournament this weekend (it was the only date we could get a venue) and everyone (and more importantly I) was pretty beat by Saturday evening. (I was setting up the kick-off course on Saturday morning early so I was gone pretty much from 6:30 to 7:30.) So we gave the kids time off until our meeting this evening. Now I have to wonder tonight whether we should really have two design tracks, one for the 60" and one for the 213.4 cm dimensions?

The design implications are pretty significant depending on which rule is correct. If it is 60", I think it makes mecanum and swerve drive much more likely, because there will not be a lot of room to use reach to get tubes onto racks. If it is 213.4 cm then more designs are possible.

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

Unlike previous years' cylinder rules, the BUMPERS are excluded from the measurement this year - thank goodness if the measurement is really 60 inches. See <R11-B>.

Because the front bumper is in the way of your mechanism, it effectively counts (while the back bumper does not)

[Bill_B]

These limitations also affect your thinking about how big the drive base should be. If you go for a smaller base, you'll get more room to extend your manipulator. No wonder they say the minibot cannot go after the game pieces. Mini, mini, Mini, go fetch!

[AllenGregoryIV]

Minibot deployment mechanisms could be built to help get a little more room out of this restriction because the minibot itself (The portion that detaches from the hostbot) is not considered in volume limitations.

From <R11>

For the purposes of determining compliance with the weight and volume limitations, the items listed below are NOT considered part of the ROBOT and are NOT included in the weight and volume assessment:
A. the 12V battery and its associated half of the Anderson cable quick connect/disconnect pair (including no more than 12” of cable per leg, the associated cable lugs, connecting bolts, and insulating electrical tape),
B. BUMPER assemblies (including BUMPER covers, if appropriate) that are in compliance with Rules <R07> and <R08>,
C. the OPERATOR CONSOLE, and
D. the MINIBOT.

So if we were to only touch the minibot from the back you could extend it past the 60" mark(or whatever the dimension truly is).

[GaryVoshol]

By my reading, the MINIBOT is not even included in the STARTING CONFIGURATION. Wow.

[Chris is me]

Cool, all my team has to do is Velcro a minibot to a swing-out PVC stick. A drawer-like design reaches less far because of the circle.

[Chris Fultz]

Originally Posted by GaryVoshol

Unlike previous years' cylinder rules, the BUMPERS are excluded from the measurement this year - thank goodness if the measurement is really 60 inches. See <R11-B>.

My point was that having the bumpers on the front side means the manipulator has to accomodate that as well - it most likely means a longer arm to get to the ground.

In 2007 - the last tube game, the bumper requirements were different.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Chris Fultz

My point was that having the bumpers on the front side means the manipulator has to accomodate that as well - it most likely means a longer arm to get to the ground.

In 2007 - the last tube game, the bumper requirements were different.

I definitely agree with your point. No cutouts in the bumpers definitely hurts compared to the 07 bots. The bumper zone this year does begin at 1" though, so theres some consolation.

-Brando

[waialua359]

Well I hope that the official answer comes quick.

Hard to come up with potential designs at this point, but my guess is that they will stick with the 60" rule.

[robodude03]

Originally Posted by waialua359

Well I hope that the official answer comes quick.

Hard to come up with potential designs at this point, but my guess is that they will stick with the 60" rule.

Absolutely agree, this is causing our team to branch into 2 separate design pathways waiting to hear an update from FIRST. I do hope that they stick with the metric rule for this :/

[MCahoon]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

I definitely agree with your point. No cutouts in the bumpers definitely hurts compared to the 07 bots. The bumper zone this year does begin at 1" though, so theres some consolation.

-Brando

Could you tell me the rule which specifies the bumper zone this year? I haven't been able to find this dimension in "The Robot Rev -" or "The Game Rev -" Thanks