Car Nack Predicts 2011-1

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Sean Raia

Woah, thats really... interesting.
So im guessing he made this position based on the time it takes to bring a logo piece across the field multiplied by 18(number of pieces needed to make 6 logos) and divided by 3(number of teams in an alliance) which gives us 6.

(135 in a match) - (15 autonomous) -(10 for end-game).

so 110/6 which lends about 18 seconds to place a piece (to break his prediction). I think Car Nack is pretty darn good at predictions, but fails to account for the possibility of a robot that launchs pieces across the field to their teammates. Still, i have a feeling hes right.

Note: i didnt account for the placing of ubertubes in autonomous which slightly lowers the time frame needed to place 6 logos.

Ubertubes don't count towards making a logo. Also, remember that a robot feeding its partners isn't scoring, and that you have exactly as many tubes as you need to complete both grids. Your feeder better not accidentally hand one off to the other alliance.

Plus, I think your time estimate is off. If you're only leaving 10 seconds for the endgame, you're in trouble. The poles are across the field, and you'd really wanna have time to line up before the last 10 seconds. Cutting 20 seconds off is probably reasonable for top flight teams that'd be trying this. Most teams will probably start setting up at 30 seconds.

[Alpha Beta]

If time is the only reason that 6 logos won't happen, it is worth considering alternate (closer) sources for game pieces. You could steal a game piece from the oponnents lane for a -3 penalty. If that piece then completes a logo on the top row it would gross you an additional 12 points and net you 9 after the penalty (an even bigger point bonus if ubertubes are involved.)

On a side note. It is possible to deploy your mini-bot from your lane where theoretically the defense is forbidden to go. But why wouldn't you take a 3 point penalty to prevent a 30 to 10 point score.

I actually like a game where smart penalties play into strategy. Great job GDC.

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Alpha Beta

On a side note. It is possible to deploy your mini-bot from your lane where theoretically the defense is forbidden to go. But why wouldn't you take a 3 point penalty to prevent a 30 to 10 point score.

Because it's not just a 3-point penalty. Messing with a robot deploying a minibot, especially if the deploying robot is contacting the base, is an automatic red card if it happens during the end game. No matter if your alliance wins, you don't!

During the end game, that would be a 3-point lane violation, a possible 3-point contact with a robot contacting tower violation, red card for the previous violation being intentional, and a red card for interference with deployment. 3-6 penalty points and 2 red cards for one move that prevents a 10-30 point score. That is not a smart penalty to take.

[Sean Raia]

Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik

Ubertubes don't count towards making a logo. Also, remember that a robot feeding its partners isn't scoring, and that you have exactly as many tubes as you need to complete both grids. Your feeder better not accidentally hand one off to the other alliance.

Plus, I think your time estimate is off. If you're only leaving 10 seconds for the endgame, you're in trouble. The poles are across the field, and you'd really wanna have time to line up before the last 10 seconds. Cutting 20 seconds off is probably reasonable for top flight teams that'd be trying this. Most teams will probably start setting up at 30 seconds.

Well considering at least one robot wont spend any time doing the end-game and will likely be placing the pieces on the rack during it i would say that affects it as well.

With the shortage of pieces... you'd have to lose three of the same shape to not be able to make six logos. And this is assuming the other team doesn't lose any.

But you're right, i didn't consider the set-up time prior to the endgame.
Keeping that in mind, under perfect conditions with all teams on your alliance in full gear you would likely need to place a piece every 11 seconds(this is assuming you have a feeding robot who is not placing pieces)...
This in itself seems impossible but like i said, with a REALLY good feeding robot and two fast placer robots Car Nacks NEVER can be turned into an ALMOST NEVER

These time estimates are very rough, but its interesting to think about.

[EricH]

Sean, to not make 6 logos, you only have to lose one piece. Your Feeders only have 3 logos apiece, and you only have two Feeders. 6 Logos. I swipe a miss and put it in my zone, and suddenly you can't make 6 without taking any of mine. I swipe more than that, and you have a much harder time, because now you have to take those pieces away from me--and if I'm smart, I keep those in reserve if I can.