2010 Gearboxes. Can they be used for Logomotion?

[Team3337_mentor]

Hi,

We were wondering if we could used last year's gearboxes for this years Logomotion game. We were planing to used the 2 gears from last year and the 2 from this year, but we are not sure if its allowed

[EricH]

The Toughboxes are still COTS, so they're legal.

The real question is if the gear ratios are the same; if they aren't, you'll need to monkey with either the output sprocket ratios or the internal gearing.

You may want to read the allowed material section of the Manual.

[Jon Stratis]

Remember though... they're only COTS if

<R29> COTS items from ROBOTS entered in previous FIRST competitions or COTS items that are no longer commercially available may be used under the following conditions:
A. The item must be functionally equivalent to the original condition as delivered from the VENDOR (e.g. a part that has non-functional label markings added would be permitted, but a part that has device-specific mounting holes added would be prohibited), and
B. The item must satisfy ALL applicable 2011 FRC materials/parts use rules.

So if you modified them at all, they are no longer COTS and can't be used. If they arrived from the vendor disassembled, to comply with both the letter and intent of the rule, you should disassemble and reassemble them before use this year (give that task to a new member who can use it as an opportunity to learn about the gear boxes!).

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by eagle33199

So if you modified them at all, they are no longer COTS and can't be used. If they arrived from the vendor disassembled, to comply with both the letter and intent of the rule, you should disassemble and reassemble them before use this year (give that task to a new member who can use it as an opportunity to learn about the gear boxes!).

Pulling a gearbox apart and together doesn't sound like "the intent of the rule" - it sounds like a pedantic waste of 2 hours.

Assembly did not modify the gear box in any way - I see no reason it has to be pulled apart.

[Jon Stratis]

I would disagree... there's a lot that students can learn putting together a gear box - something that is completely lost on newer students if you just keep reusing old gear boxes. Taken to an extreme, if you assemble a set of toughboxes this year, and the team just keeps using them every year for the next 4 years, you'll have students on the team that have never seen the inside of a gear box, and don't have that practical knowledge knowledge of how it all fits together and works to provide the gear reduction your using. They just know there's a magic box they have to hook up to the CIM motors.

Remember, the competition isn't about building a robot. It's about the practical experience and learning opportunities that arise. Throwing those opportunities out in order to get the robot built faster only hurts you and your team.

[BRTeams_Mentor]

Originally Posted by Team3337_mentor

Hi,

We were wondering if we could used last year's gearboxes for this years Logomotion game. We were planing to used the 2 gears from last year and the 2 from this year, but we are not sure if its allowed

The gear ratio might be different but that could be fixed by modifying the magnitude of the signal to the jaguars controlling the CIM motors.

Is a gearbox support considered an integral part of it ? - To be more specific...
What if you modified the gearboxes' supports and they are no longer as they were originally provided to the team ?


Thanks.

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by BRTeams_Mentor

The gear ratio might be different but that could be fixed by modifying the magnitude of the signal to the jaguars controlling the CIM motors.
.

This is true but isn't really a good practice, you don't want to start designing by planing to compensate for poor mechanical design by using software.

I would reccomend comparing the two gear boxes and adjusting the gear ratio as appropriate.

Is a gearbox support considered an integral part of it ? - To be more specific...
What if you modified the gearboxes' supports and they are no longer as they were originally provided to the team ?


Thanks.

I would say yes. My line of thinking for deciding if a COTS part has been changed is to ask "If Team A (not your team) used this part with no modifications at all could the part our teamwants to use be dropped into place as a 1 to 1 replacement for their part with no changes?". In this case it can not be (their mounting may not allow for the modified supports).

As always that is my opinion, ask Q&A if you want an official answer