Tetrix DC Drive Motor W739083 dynamometer data

[Mike Betts]

Originally Posted by colin340

after looking at the graphs for the thousand time I sort of understand how to read them I see that maximum efficiency at 88 RPMs

I had the idea about Max torque at zero RPMs from electric dragsters
But I guess that doesn't translate maybe brushless motors?
Anyhow I'll gear it to hopefully bog to 88 RPMs
Thanks for all help folks just goes to show 20 years of school rarely matches up to simply asking a question and accepting that you are clueless in the subject.

ps Wankel's are awesome i Have a snowmobile with one

Colin,

You are confusing power and torque. Your statement about maximum torque at zero speed is absolutely correct. However, power is equal to torque multiplied by angular speed. Since the speed is zero at max torque, the power is zero hence the efficiency is zero.

This is why you will read about these motors burning out is you stall them at full voltage.

At the other end of the curve, the torque is zero at "free speed" and, once again, the power is zero.

For DC brushed motors, the max mechanical power is always very near 50% torque and speed (exactly 50% in a perfect, theoretical world). The max efficiency will always be at a lower torque (higher speed). Exactly how mush lower is the question...

20 years was not wasted. The laws of physics still hold and all is good...

Regards,

Mike

[Tom Line]

Richard, what was the measured free-speed of the motor without the gearhead?

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

Rich, what was the measured free-speed of the motor without the gearhead?

At 12V dc, both motors measured about 7350 RPM with 0.4 Ampere current draw. The true Free Speed is probably a little higher and true Free Amperes are probably a little lower, since the initial dynamometer loading was not really zero -- probably about 0.002 Newton-meter.

[Tom Line]

Ok Richard, thanks for all your work!!! One more question, if you don't mind. Any idea what the gear ratio is through that gear head?

[MikeE]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

Ok Richard, thanks for all your work!!! One more question, if you don't mind. Any idea what the gear ratio is through that gear head?

The specs posted by Greg in the first reply state that the gearbox has 1:52 ratio which matches closely to Richard's measured 145:7350.

And I'd like to add to the thanks for publishing your results Richard.

[Tom Line]

Wow. I can't believe I missed that. Thanks.

[BBray_T1296]

We were doing some Physics (yes, finally there is a purpose to that class! ) and we calculated a speed of ~22 inches a second under a 5 pound load using two Tetrix motors idk if it is relevant to anyone but...

[Dave Otis]

Hi Richard, for the results with the Tetrix NiMH battery, with voltage >14V, is there any way you could provide the info on RPM vs. torque (I'm curious how the stall torque increases with voltage--does it scale proportionately?) and current vs. torque? Then we can re-run our simulation for the various gearing and wheel size ranges we're considering. We wanted to look at whole range of motor operation at ~14V, and not just the peak power point.

I realize you were unable to attach the raw data because of file size limitations, but if there is a way you could send us a more limited set of data that would be much appreciated. Thanks very much for your help!

...............
With Tetrix battery: (voltage > 14V)

Motor 1: 16.5 Watts peak output mechanical power at ~90 RPM, 178 RPM initial motor speed
Motor 2: 16.0 Watts peak output mechanical power at ~90 RPM, 173 RPM initial motor speed
Motor 3: 14.2 Watts peak output mechanical power at ~90 RPM, 172 RPM initial motor speed
Motor 4: 15.2 Watts peak output mechanical power at ~90 RPM, 176 RPM initial motor speed

------------------

.....

NOTE: I wanted to include the raw data and plots of speed and power vs. torque; however, they cannot be attached to this post because the file size is too large (>101.8 kB).

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Test Temperature: Ambient (22 degrees C)
Software: M-Test 5.0
Dynamometer: Magtrol HD 705-6N (Calibrated 01/12/2011 by NT) Dyno Controller: Magtrol 4629B (ML144)
Power Supply: Sorensen XG 150-11.2[/quote][/i]

[Richard Wallace]

Originally Posted by Dave Otis

... (I'm curious how the stall torque increases with voltage--does it scale proportionately?)

Yes, stall torque does scale proportionally with voltage, because increasing the supply voltage will increase the stall current.

Torque-per-ampere does not scale; it is the same constant (given by the magnetic flux linkage, which of course does not change) for all voltages.

When I get some time I will create a reduced version of the measured curves for speed vs. torque and power vs. torque, at each of the test voltages for each motor. We recorded too many data points to include the raw file.

[jreuter]

Richard:

With regard to climb rate modeling, there is a simple approach that skips the conversion to energy.

For your example of 22.5 W net output power (two motors @ 15W x 75% efficiency:

Converting units gives 22.5W * 0.7375 = 16.6 ft-lbf/s

Divide by the weight (in pounds) that you want to lift, and you get the theoretical top speed
16.6 /5 lb = 3.3 ft/sec,
or 2.8 seconds to climb 110 inches.

The trick, as you point out, is to get the right wheel radius and gear ratio to get to the peak power point for your weight. The estimate of efficiency is key, since it needs to include all sources of friction/torque. As I learned (again) this year, mis-estimating this can put you near stall, and smoke a motor.