Go to Post Stop it with the "break the rules, just don't let anyone know" already! - Alan Anderson [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-02-2011, 08:48
MaxMax161's Avatar
MaxMax161 MaxMax161 is offline
Allegedly Useful
AKA: Max Llewellyn
FRC #2791 (Shaker Robotics), FRC #1676 (Pascack π-oneers)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Montvale NJ\Troy NY
Posts: 174
MaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond repute
Human Player Skill

Our human player has been pretty much able to do everything we want to with tubes, and is learning the rest. Somehow we got a nerd with a sports backround . So far our guy can get roll and land the circle in our scoring zone 19/20 times, the square 14/20 times, and the triangle we have decided to throw trough the feeding hole because it does 7/20 at best when rolled.

I was wondering how everyone else was doing with tubes.
__________________
2791 Shaker Robotics (2013-present)
--Control Systems Mentor 2013-present
--Drive coach 2015-present

1676 The Pascack π-oneers (2010-2013)
--Drive coach 2011-2013
--Lead Programmer 2011-2013
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-02-2011, 09:26
pandamonium's Avatar
pandamonium pandamonium is offline
Registered User
FRC #1836 (Milken Knights)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 407
pandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Human Player Skill

MAX so far I have agreed with you on our human player discussions. But I have not been able to get human players to roll the square or triangle at all let alone with a similar amount of success. Are your tubes, really inflated, is your human player just so incredibly talented, are you using the tomahawk method? ... at best our triangles and square land 12 feet out from the tower in the middle of the field.
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-02-2011, 09:31
CalTran's Avatar
CalTran CalTran is offline
Missouri S&T Senior
FRC #2410 (BV CAPS Metal Mustang Robotics)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Overland Park, Kansas
Posts: 2,369
CalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond reputeCalTran has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Human Player Skill

I applaud you for having your human player practice, but there are a few things to consider that I implore you to if you haven't already. In the alliance station there will be limited space for a human player to move. And he will likely be under quite a bit of pressure, especially once Elims come along. On the field there are going to be six robots moving at speed, with one probably doing the sole job of defense. Plus, with the towers spaced around the field, are you sure you'll be able to get the tubes the same way. I'm not trying to bash on practicing, but I am simply trying to help you udnerstand the difference between game conditions and ideal practice conditions.
Hope your season and practices are going well. Cheers.
__________________
Team 2410 thinks KISSing is amazing! Keep It Super Safe!
  • "You know you've been in robotics too long when you start talking to your tools." "Well, you've been in robotics CLEARLY too long when they start talking back"
  • Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. Practice is when everything works but you don't know why. On our team, theory and practice comes together - nothing works and nobody knows why.
MMR 2410 Student (2010 - 2013) | MMR 2410 Mentor (2013 - Present)
FTC Game Announcer / EmCee (2014 - Present) | FRC EmCee (2015 - Present) | FRC Referee (2016)
Academic Student (Forever)
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-02-2011, 09:34
thefro526's Avatar
thefro526 thefro526 is offline
Mentor for Hire.
AKA: Dustin Benedict
no team (EWCP, MAR, FRC 708)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,599
thefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to thefro526 Send a message via MSN to thefro526
Re: Human Player Skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by pandamonium View Post
But I have not been able to get human players to roll the square or triangle at all let alone with a similar amount of success. Are your tubes, really inflated, is your human player just so incredibly talented, are you using the tomahawk method?
The amount a tube is inflated doesn't seem to have as much of an effect on tube throwing as the throw itself. One of our students was able to throw Circles and Squares into the scoring zone with accuracy close to 1676's, but we noticed that the tubes must roll at least 10-15 feet to get into the zone.

It's a risky move.
__________________
-Dustin Benedict
2005-2012 - Student & Mentor FRC 816
2012-2014 - Technical Mentor, 2014 Drive Coach FRC 341
Current - Mentor FRC 2729, FRC 708
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-02-2011, 10:11
MaxMax161's Avatar
MaxMax161 MaxMax161 is offline
Allegedly Useful
AKA: Max Llewellyn
FRC #2791 (Shaker Robotics), FRC #1676 (Pascack π-oneers)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Montvale NJ\Troy NY
Posts: 174
MaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Human Player Skill

I think our success with the tubes is probably mainly due to our human player's talent and shear height. Our human player is built LARGE and did a lot of sports before he realized that robotics is more awesome. We try not to reinflate tubes until they are noticeably flat in order to replicate competition settings.

Well so far we've used an all but accurate tower base (3/4'' short) and/or some chairs to simulate towers and they don't seem to be a problem. We also have a feeder station ect built to spec which hasn't been a problem yet.

I do think that with all the robots wizzing around the field getting tubes in to the scoring zone wouldn't be easy. That said there may be a few openings in the game when a tube could get trough (maybe 4+/6 robots are hanging tubes or getting them from the feeder station) and I'd like to be able to take advantage of those. Every point counts.

Something I didn't mention in the thread starter, we've had pretty much total success getting all three tubes where ever we want them in the feeding lane; what about you guys? Also, we haven't done as much practice with this but how accurately can your guys get tubes in the middle of the field?
__________________
2791 Shaker Robotics (2013-present)
--Control Systems Mentor 2013-present
--Drive coach 2015-present

1676 The Pascack π-oneers (2010-2013)
--Drive coach 2011-2013
--Lead Programmer 2011-2013

Last edited by MaxMax161 : 17-02-2011 at 10:14.
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-02-2011, 10:18
thefro526's Avatar
thefro526 thefro526 is offline
Mentor for Hire.
AKA: Dustin Benedict
no team (EWCP, MAR, FRC 708)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,599
thefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond reputethefro526 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to thefro526 Send a message via MSN to thefro526
Re: Human Player Skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxMax161 View Post
We haven't done as much practice with this but how accurately can your guys get tubes in the middle of the field?
Personally, I can throw tubes to the middle of the field within a five foot radius with about 8/9 consistency, but I'm also 6'5" so it's really easy for me to get them over the wall - sadly I can't be a human player. Haha.

Our prospective human player isn't too far off with his consistency, I think he's about 6/9 or 7/9 with minimal practice, though he's a lot shorter than I am so teaching him to throw is a bit of a challenge.

When you see a full sized field, you'll realize how difficult it'll be to throw tubes reliably with 6 robots out there.
__________________
-Dustin Benedict
2005-2012 - Student & Mentor FRC 816
2012-2014 - Technical Mentor, 2014 Drive Coach FRC 341
Current - Mentor FRC 2729, FRC 708
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-02-2011, 10:27
Brian Ha's Avatar
Brian Ha Brian Ha is offline
Teh Ha Kid
FRC #0302 (Team 302)
Team Role: Driver
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Oxford
Posts: 151
Brian Ha has a spectacular aura aboutBrian Ha has a spectacular aura aboutBrian Ha has a spectacular aura about
Re: Human Player Skill

It's funny cause we built a peg wall and a feeder wall to specs, except our peg wall has an opening in it, so no back wall. Our current hp is 6ft 6 and can throw like idk. Anyways he's been able to throw our tubes to the point where it goes through the gap in the wall. We have also been using the specs for the space they have to an approximation. Only thing we haven't tried is putting other robots out their or poles. That's all i have to say.
__________________
Starcraft 2 Hit me up Cheese 972, or join the FRC chat room ingame
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-02-2011, 10:31
pandamonium's Avatar
pandamonium pandamonium is offline
Registered User
FRC #1836 (Milken Knights)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 407
pandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond reputepandamonium has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Human Player Skill

What if you base your strategy around trying to keep the center of the field clear and staying in your zones and lanes. Also intentionally draw a defender to one side or the other to clear the center for the roll which is soooo much faster than traversing the full length of the field to acquire a tube.
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-02-2011, 10:35
MaxMax161's Avatar
MaxMax161 MaxMax161 is offline
Allegedly Useful
AKA: Max Llewellyn
FRC #2791 (Shaker Robotics), FRC #1676 (Pascack π-oneers)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Montvale NJ\Troy NY
Posts: 174
MaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Human Player Skill

Quote:
Originally Posted by thefro526 View Post
When you see a full sized field, you'll realize how difficult it'll be to throw tubes reliably with 6 robots out there.
There will definitely be a difference between our little 1/4 field and extra carpet and a field at regionals. We've done some testing in the school gym and our human player seemed to be ok at Frisbeeing the tubes to the middle but not reliably enough to use in competition. When we tried to tomahawk them the tubes slipped on the slick floor as opposed to bouncing and rolling.

Our goal as far as human player is concerned is to get him to the point where he can gently hit our robot (or something else) with a tube, that tube will drop, and we can then pick it up. We figure that if we can do this from 1/2 way across the field or more we can save enough traveling time to lower our sec/tube. Which means more tubes/game. Do you think that's possible or a good idea?
__________________
2791 Shaker Robotics (2013-present)
--Control Systems Mentor 2013-present
--Drive coach 2015-present

1676 The Pascack π-oneers (2010-2013)
--Drive coach 2011-2013
--Lead Programmer 2011-2013
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-02-2011, 10:39
Brian Ha's Avatar
Brian Ha Brian Ha is offline
Teh Ha Kid
FRC #0302 (Team 302)
Team Role: Driver
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Rookie Year: 2009
Location: Oxford
Posts: 151
Brian Ha has a spectacular aura aboutBrian Ha has a spectacular aura aboutBrian Ha has a spectacular aura about
Re: Human Player Skill

Good idea, worried though, make sure there is nothing that the tube could get caught on because then it would make matters worse.
__________________
Starcraft 2 Hit me up Cheese 972, or join the FRC chat room ingame
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 17-02-2011, 12:24
MaxMax161's Avatar
MaxMax161 MaxMax161 is offline
Allegedly Useful
AKA: Max Llewellyn
FRC #2791 (Shaker Robotics), FRC #1676 (Pascack π-oneers)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Montvale NJ\Troy NY
Posts: 174
MaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond reputeMaxMax161 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Human Player Skill

You bring up a good point, I wonder if you accidently get a tube stuck on your bot if it would be considered possessed. On that note even if you're not trying to hit your bot with tubes you should probably design it so that flying tubes for whatever reason won't get stuck. Accidentally possessing a tube and not being able to pick up any without a penalty for the rest of the match could be a big problem.
__________________
2791 Shaker Robotics (2013-present)
--Control Systems Mentor 2013-present
--Drive coach 2015-present

1676 The Pascack π-oneers (2010-2013)
--Drive coach 2011-2013
--Lead Programmer 2011-2013
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-02-2011, 11:23
Eagleeyedan's Avatar
Eagleeyedan Eagleeyedan is offline
C.O.R.E.; We build on each other
AKA: Daniel C.
FRC #2062 (C.O.R.E. 2062)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 334
Eagleeyedan is a jewel in the roughEagleeyedan is a jewel in the roughEagleeyedan is a jewel in the roughEagleeyedan is a jewel in the rough
Re: Human Player Skill

Don't forget though, you might need to be an analyst this year.
__________________
Former Driver and Safety Captain of team C.O.R.E. 2062 (Community of Robotic Engineers)

2015: Wisconsin Regional- Champions, Industrial Safety Award
Midwest Regional - Champions, Industrial Safety Award, Industrial Controls Award
2014: Midwest Regional - Judges Award
2013: Lake Superior Regional - Champions
2012: World Championship - Industrial Safety Award, World Finalist for the Autodesk Award
2011: Wisconsin Regional - Website Award 10,000 Lakes Regional - Innovation in Control, Safety Award
2010: World Championship - Archimedes Semi-Finalists -World Finalist for the Autodesk Award
10,000 Lakes Regional - Regional Champs, Entrepreneurship Award
Wisconsin Regional - Entrepreneurship Award, Industrial Safety Award
2009: WI Regional- Quality Award, Industrial Safety Award
10,000 Lakes - Safety Award, Motorola Quality Award, Animation Award
2008: World Championship - Industrial Safety Award,
Wisconsin Regional - Champions, Industrial Safety Award
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-02-2011, 21:43
hensontam hensontam is offline
Registered User
FRC #0610 (The Coyotes)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 15
hensontam is a glorious beacon of lighthensontam is a glorious beacon of lighthensontam is a glorious beacon of lighthensontam is a glorious beacon of lighthensontam is a glorious beacon of lighthensontam is a glorious beacon of light
Re: Human Player Skill

We've done a bit of human player practice and he can pretty much bomb game pieces within arms length of any point up to 30-ish feet - he's an amazing ultimate (frisbee) player.

Of course, all this practice might go out the window with a slightly more confied tournament setting.
__________________
Henson Tam
Team 610 Alumni
Crescent School

All posts are of my own opinion and may not reflect the stance/position of Team 610 or Crescent School.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-02-2011, 22:59
Eigenvector's Avatar
Eigenvector Eigenvector is offline
Registered User
AKA: Xander
FRC #1002 (CircuitRunners)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 5
Eigenvector is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Human Player Skill

I'm throwing the circle consistently to the scoring zone and can normally send the square and circle in there as well. We've been doing speed drills, so far we're looking at being able to empty the entire feeder station to the scoring zone in under 30 seconds. So far we've been pleasantly surprised by how well they fly, at scrimmage we were hitting the ceiling easily.
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 21-02-2011, 00:03
Grim Tuesday's Avatar
Grim Tuesday Grim Tuesday is offline
Registered User
AKA: Simon Bohn
FRC #0639 (Code Red)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Rookie Year: 2010
Location: Baltimore MD (JHU)
Posts: 1,600
Grim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond reputeGrim Tuesday has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Human Player Skill

Im sure that within the first week regionals, there will be a team update giving a penalty to tubes thrown past the caution line [/speculation]
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:39.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi