What Contributes the Most to a Team's Success?

[boomergeek]

Originally Posted by Koko Ed

What so graceless about answering a question?

Here's a hypothetical example:
Which family member contributes most to the success of a nuclear family: Father, mother, sister, or brother?

Is it gracious for the mother (or the father) of the family to pose such a question to the teenage children and the spouse? Is it gracious for the mother (or the father) to call copout when someone indicates that "everyone" should be an allowed answer to the question?

Such a question is no more relevant or helpful than trying to vote on whether the mechanical team is more important than the programming team or the fundraising team.

GP is for all involved to help inspire students to find themselves and learn skills and enjoy aspects of engineering. Trying to identify though voting which group members are most important raises some up at the unintended expense of considering other people as less important.

Publicly appreciate everyone- without needless: some jobs are more important than others polling, it's the GP thing to do.

I think most mentors already internally know how important they are without wanting or needing a poll where they are proven to win out over sponsors or students.

[JaneYoung]

It's rather the square peg in a round hole scenario when you create a thread/poll such as this that tries to drive 1 single most important aspect of a team forward. What purpose does it serve?

Jane

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

It's rather the square peg in a round hole scenario when you create a thread/poll such as this that tries to drive 1 single most important aspect of a team forward. What purpose does it serve?

We learn when we ask difficult questions. I agree with Ed, saying the entire team is the most important is a cop-out. Obviously, there are strong teams, but how did they end up that way? Just accepting that strong teams spontaneously pop into being by virtue of being a good team sounds a lot like spontaneous generation to me. Someone's gotta plant the germs.

I think it is absolutely dedicated NEMs (or EMs acting as NEMs). I've never run a FIRST team, but after running a college club I'm pretty sure I don't want to. There are so many forms to be filled out, meetings to attend, and decisions to make that have nothing to do with the 120 pounds of robotic goodness that goes onto that field. It is draining (at least for me) in a very different sense than building the robot. Give me a pot of coffee and I'll stay up all night designing/building/testing mechanisms, but a stack of paperwork is the death of me.

Dedicated students are obviously important too (here comes the chicken-or-the-egg bit), but I its easier to get students interested when you've got dedicated mentors as opposed to getting mentors interested when you've got dedicated students. To deal with the vast amount of stuff that goes with running a FIRST team, you've really got to love it. It's not a temporary gig, and you can't just do it for your kids. You've got to love it (or learn to love it). I know lots of dedicated adult mentors probably get involved because of their kids, but they stay involved because they love it. And if they don't, they burn out real quick.

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

It's rather the square peg in a round hole scenario when you create a thread/poll such as this that tries to drive 1 single most important aspect of a team forward. What purpose does it serve?

Jane

The purpose of this thread was simply to create thoughtful debate, Jane.
Nothing more.

[Jared Russell]

On the field: Solid engineering, which usually equates to having experienced mentors.

Off the field: Tireless organization, which usually equates to having experienced mentors.

[Alan Anderson]

A lot of the debate seems to be treating the question as asking about what makes a successful team. That's not the same thing as contributing to a team's success. A successful team is undeniably a partnership. No single factor can be pointed to as the most important reason. But is there something specific one can add to any random "struggling" FRC team and reliably increase its success? I believe there is.

I also think the definition of success should be aligned with the mission of FIRST. Students are absolutely the target, but mentors are explicitly the foundation on which the programs are based. Without good mentors, this becomes just another science fair.

[Taylor]

I think this is a great exercise. One of the great things about CD is the fact that we can have civilized, academic discussions without fear of offending or alienating persons or groups.
As our team continues to grow, I find it beneficial to see what other accomplished teams' members feel to be critical to their own successes; as such, we can align our team's growth to parallel that. It helps us prioritize our efforts, it helps us recognize if our efforts may be misdirected or simply not as fruitful as we think.
Keep asking the hard questions. Be introspective. That's how we as a team, and we as a community, continue to grow.

[jimwick]

not on the list, but very important: being located at a strong supportive school or other strong sponsor.

we are a regional team and our students and mentors come from all over. this makes life very difficult because we normally can only work on friday evening, saturday, and sunday afternoons. regular attendance is a problem; many of our students are too young to drive. we also lack the ability to integrate team activities with any school curriculum, such as programming or solidworks/inventor. we get by but it's tough.

well, we love it anyway. wouldn't miss it. up here in vermont it helps us get through the winter; by the time march 5 gets here, winter is losing its grip.

jim wick

[Koko Ed]

Originally Posted by jimwick

not on the list, but very important: being located at a strong supportive school or other strong sponsor.

we are a regional team and our students and mentors come from all over. this makes life very difficult because we normally can only work on friday evening, saturday, and sunday afternoons. regular attendance is a problem; many of our students are too young to drive. we also lack the ability to integrate team activities with any school curriculum, such as programming or solidworks/inventor. we get by but it's tough.

well, we love it anyway. wouldn't miss it. up here in vermont it helps us get through the winter; by the time march 5 gets here, winter is losing its grip.

jim wick

I would place that as facilities.

[The Lucas]

Originally Posted by jimwick

not on the list, but very important: being located at a strong supportive school or other strong sponsor.

That is on the list. That is either
Facilities (typo in the poll)
Strong Loyal Sponsorship, or
Good Relationship With Affiliated School
depending on what you consider most important in your statement (location or sponsor/school). I think it is facilities (a place for everyone to meet) based on the rest of your answer.

[ks_mumupsi]

Hands down, dedicated students...

I have seen teams with amazing mentors and great coaches that have done far below their level, not because the robot was not good or the robot was not robust but because the students dont seem to carry as much dedication towards it, I am sure there are a few but when a larger % of students dont follow the team its tough.

Not only that but these teams become harder to sustain, not as many people bringing in sponsorship or fundraising and not as many people traveling etc.

A lot of the mentors you will see are driven by the students, by seeing the students enjoy and learn from the process. Their dedication make us want to do it that much more.

I have been with 2016 for 5 years now and every year a new batch of kids comes in and find their way through the maze of a team we have... But they are there every night, every weekend for all 6 weeks. Thats what makes us want to be there. yea we enjoy building a robot and all, but if there are no students there to drive the robot theres no use having a good robot.

love having our students around.. and especially getting them to challenge the mentors idea's thats when it gets really fun!!

[davidthefat]

The "titude" is the difference between an A+(titude) and a F.

[SuburBot]

Dedicated students. More specifically, students WHO GET THE POINT OF FIRST.

I bet that the majority of people who didn't answer students are involved with a team that already has good students. If you were on a team without them, you might vote differently.

Because unless participating students are capable of wanting to learn, wanting to have fun, and wanting to help others do the same, nothing gets done. The final robot is something nobody learned from, built almost completely by mentors who are worried about having nothing to compete with. Enthusiastic mentors and students with ideas and motivation get tired of trying to get the majority of students to care about what they're trying to say. They also get tired of trying to design or build a robot or component while everyone else plays online video games, watches pirated movies, or play cards and board games. Some of the non-contributors become trolls, and tell dedicated and interested participants that their ideas suck while doing nothing themselves.

Being the majority, the lazy people and trolls stay. A very frustrated and fed up dedicated minority abandons all hope and stops showing up.

I'm unfortunately speaking from my experience this year and last year. Most interested and experienced mentors and some dedicated students have stopped showing showing up, and recently, I have too (although I will be at the regional competition on the last day to meet some successful teams).

I honestly don't know why most people on my team joined. Because they literally couldn't care less about Gracious Professionalism, the engineering experience, or anything else FIRST tries to promote. The only logical explanation for them being there is the school's free internet connection or that it would look good on their college application. And the only reason they were accepted into an remained on the team was because we needed to prove we had above a certain number of students to be sponsored this year, so there were no restrictions on joining or staying.

For the reasons described above, the robotics team isn't taken very seriously at all at my school, and students that should be the most interested in FRC don't join. It's a death spiral.

CONCLUSION: If you don't have enough students that want to learn, have fun, or participate, everyone who does will pack up and leave, and the team will implode. This is why an FRC team's rookie year is the most important. It sets the standard.

[Garret]

My team is 100% student everything. And I still think that mentors are the most important factor. Without mentors a team will end up like mine. having literally no continuity between seasons, essentially being a rookie every season.

Mentors are also what guide the students. Even if the students build the robots completely, they need a mentor to show them how to make a robot or do anything. You simply cannot learn what is never taught. A few students are self-starters and who can learn on there own, however FIRST is about inspiring the kids who wouldn't be able to do it on there own. Thus for a team to truly be a success it needs mentors.

Students come and leave but mentors and teachers stay with the team. My team's history goes back only until 2008, and that is only because me and one other student have been on it that long, otherwise it goes back until 2009, and then 2010 once those students graduate. Thankfully, we have mentors now, so hopefully team 691 will be around for a while after me and the other student leaders leave.

A great student member exists for at most 5-6 years, a mentor doesn't have a set amount of time with the team.

[J93Wagner]

Looking back, around May/June 2010, N.A.C. Team 93 had a group discussion about the next step to take. And as part of it we were asked what in or on the team was the most important. We came up with a list about 10-15 items long. What wasn't included on that list was the robot because it isn't the robot that is important. It's the people, because FIRST isn't about building robots, it's about building people by using robots as a fun and exciting tool. What I'm seeing here is that that is very much true because it isn't anything like the practice robots or facilities that are overwhelmingly important. It's the people.