Notifying teams of yellow/red cards

[Madison]

We received two yellow cards this weekend -- and consequently a red card -- after some trouble with our bumper mounts pulling out.

In the first instance, the yellow card was announced alongside the match score, but no official directly informed any member of my drive team about the infraction.

In the second instance, neither the yellow card nor subsequent red card was announced to spectators and, again, no official informed any member of my team.

Is this par for the course? We asked the head referee how teams are meant to correct behavior when they're not being informed of these infractions and were told, more or less, that we "should know better."

I'm curious if this is typical interaction between teams and the officials or if others are more diligent about informing teams of penalties/cards. I'd like to see some standard in place that the referees must follow with respect to informing teams of all penalties and cards.

[JesseK]

Last year we were yellow-carded in a qual match in DC because we left a piece of our robot on the field. Of course we intended to shear those rivets and have the wheel break off -- it was obviously designed to do just that exactly once a competition. We weren't notified about it. We found out because we had a yellow background on our number in a later match. The head ref had similar sentiments.

I'm really glad the 'intentionally' has been re-added to the 'leave parts behind' rule.

[Alex Cormier]

Also, the other interesting part is after a match. Teams are required to get the robots off the field and to get to the next spot. Which is usually the pit. So by the time, the scores and cards are announced, the drive team is already too far away.


I noticed in FLR and Pitt that the head ref's would walk over to the driver station of which team would get the card.

[Ian Curtis]

Originally Posted by Alex Cormier

Also, the other interesting part is after a match. Teams are required to get the robots off the field and to get to the next spot. Which is usually the pit. So by the time, the scores and cards are announced, the drive team is already too far away.


I noticed in FLR and Pitt that the head ref's would walk over to the driver station of which team would get the card.

Really? It's been two years since I was in the box, but we definitely knew if we had been penalized before our drive team was out of range. From memory, we knew if we had been penalized before the robot was off the field, and we knew the scores before we made it past the curtain. Perhaps this is venue specific?

We have been approached in the past about almost-calls too. "Hey, I noticed you almost committed a <G9001>, you should probably watch out for that in the future."

[George A.]

I know that I always announce the team and rule infraction for each match I call, as have most announcers for the regionals I attend.

The only caveat to this is that in the elims we are instructed to only give the alliance color in hopes to stem "blaming" one team for getting the alliances knocked out

[2789_DrT]

Originally Posted by George A.

I know that I always announce the team and rule infraction for each match I call, as have most announcers for the regionals I attend.

The only caveat to this is that in the elims we are instructed to only give the alliance color in hopes to stem "blaming" one team for getting the alliances knocked out

Hmmm.. interesting. At the Chesapeake Regional, the announcer did communicate which teams were responsible for red and yellow cards in the elimination rounds - including two red cards that caused a semifinal rematch and another red card that cost the red alliance a final match that would have sent that alliance on to St. Louis. The match was replayed and the blue alliance won.

In the past, we have had a disconnect between our scout and drive teams so at this Regional we made it our goal to close that gap so that our drive team could better decisions. Our team had a scouting system that included 1 scout for the red alliance, 1 scout for the blue alliance, 1 scout to record minibot scores & penalties (that was me), and 2 people for data entry. We uploaded all our data to a google site (https://sites.google.com/site/2011chesapeake/) so that our drive team could make informed decisions and also provide early assistance to robots we were allied with in future matches that seemed to be in need of repairs. To be fair, we made the website public so that other teams could view our data too.

Because I was recording penalties, I could see how a drive team could miss some really key penalty calls. The referees conferred on the penalties for all matches so there was a lag between the penalty announcements and the end of matches. However, I know there must have been some kind of earlier communication between the refs and our drive team because the one time our team got carded - our drive team was able to ask the refs for clarification on the penalty.

[IndySam]

At Wisconsin the head ref personally informed every team of a red or yellow card which was a nice touch.

At Purdue the head ref stood in front of the drivers station with the card.

[Andrew Y.]

at peachtree...the head ref would hold up the red card and explain to the spectators exactly why the red card was given. She did this throughout qualifications and eliminations.

One thing she tried to do as fast as possible was to approach the driver station of the red carded team and show them they received the red card...but there was NO ONE in the drivers station most of the time due to the rush of getting robots in and out.

all in all i think there were no real communication problems at peachtree

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Andrew Y.

at peachtree...the head ref would hold up the red card and explain to the spectators exactly why the red card was given. She did this throughout qualifications and eliminations.

One thing she tried to do as fast as possible was to approach the driver station of the red carded team and show them they received the red card...but there was NO ONE in the drivers station most of the time due to the rush of getting robots in and out.

all in all i think there were no real communication problems at peachtree

Cosigned--sort of. I was able to see the quarterfinals red card our opponents received rather clearly as we unloaded our robot...but I was already looking towards the blue alliance station (and thus the big screen, given the venue layout). Putting the head ref on the microphone was definitely more informative than sticking a red card in the air (which could happen in any of six places on the field).

Given the significance of a yellow or red card, perhaps a separate "Hold the drivers a minute" signal needs to be created to ensure that the drivers don't walk off before the announcement is put out (even while allowing them to leave their driver station to start robot unloading to keep the schedule). I'm not sure what the best signal would be--police lights on the scoring table? Another field sound, like the trumpet and foghorn? Big orange cone at midfield with Aidan Browne giving you the evil eye?--but I think an official signal that the head ref is about to lay the smackdown may help everyone be aware.

[RyanN]

We were yellow carded this weekend because of our 5th person on the floor during finals was not allowed to be on the floor. They said on the PA system that each team going into the finals was allowed one extra person to help with the robot. We sent out our normal mentor we always send out, and we were yellow carded because we were only allowed to have 4 people.

No worries though, it did not change the outcome of the competition. We were just not sure why that was against the rules, and still don't. It does hurt our reputation though. We were penalized 12 points for it though.

Maybe someone who saw or was judging the Bayou Regional finals could clarify why were were yellow carded so we don't do it again?

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by RyanN

We were yellow carded this weekend because of our 5th person on the floor during finals was not allowed to be on the floor. They said on the PA system that each team going into the finals was allowed one extra person to help with the robot. We sent out our normal mentor we always send out, and we were yellow carded because we were only allowed to have 4 people.

No worries though, it did not change the outcome of the competition. We were just not sure why that was against the rules, and still don't. It does hurt our reputation though. We were penalized 12 points for it though.

Maybe someone who saw or was judging the Bayou Regional finals could clarify why were were yellow carded so we don't do it again?

The extra person rule applies only at the Championship and is partly due to the long distances between pit and field. You can find the rule in the Tournament section of the Game Rules, Section 5.6 Championship Additions.

[Gary Dillard]

Originally Posted by RyanN

We were yellow carded this weekend because of our 5th person on the floor during finals was not allowed to be on the floor. They said on the PA system that each team going into the finals was allowed one extra person to help with the robot. We sent out our normal mentor we always send out, and we were yellow carded because we were only allowed to have 4 people.

No worries though, it did not change the outcome of the competition. We were just not sure why that was against the rules, and still don't. It does hurt our reputation though. We were penalized 12 points for it though.

Maybe someone who saw or was judging the Bayou Regional finals could clarify why were were yellow carded so we don't do it again?

I don't know about the specifics of your match, but I did hear at another regional webcast something to the effect that someone else on their team on the field had been giving signals so they got a yellow card. I've had to warn volunteers and media people about this before - they get carried away cheering and forget they can't give advice like "move closer" because of their advantage point on the field.

[big1boom]

Originally Posted by IndySam

At Wisconsin the head ref personally informed every team of a red or yellow card which was a nice touch.

The Wisconsin head ref was really good about notifying the drive team of any warnings/yellow/red cards. He would send one of the field reset crew to tell a member of drive team to wait in the ref box, and then immediately following the match he would come over and tell that person what they were doing wrong, or how they are engaging in risky behavior.

[bduddy]

At St. Louis it appeared that the head ref managed to show the card to the driver station before the team left, and each one was announced over the intercom.

I also think that every penalty should be announced over the PA as well - how hard would it be to establish some kind of standard system, like the NFL? Explain each rule the first time it comes up, then just say the rule number or a brief description of each penalty as it occurs. IMO this would dramatically improve the spectator experience.

[Knufire]

Same here, when we got a red card at the Detroit District event, the head referee personally came to our pit after the match to tell us that we got a red card and explained why.