Championship 2011 - St Louis - Your Thoughts Please?

[JaneYoung]

Originally Posted by Bill_B

Lots of thought fodder in this thread. I'd like to see some diagrams made to support some of the relocation ideas proposed. Want larger bleacher areas? where? Better routing? sketch out what you mean. No debris zones? how can that be laid out.

Hey, you're not designing a robot for a while, why not try your hand at "venue" design.

This could include debris zone containers. If trash cans are overflowing, that provides an opportunity to think inside the box and how to keep it there. It also provides an opportunity to think about portability and effectiveness.

(I don't know about stadium venues but I know one of the first job positions to get cut in the educational systems - is janitorial services and supplies. They need support and help, not just complaints.)

Jane

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Bill_B

No debris zones? how can that be laid out.

It's kind of tricky--you'd want a 25'+ wide path. 5'+, marked, for people to walk in, with a good, solid 10'+ on either side, running on the most direct route possible. Anybody not in safety glasses needs to stay in the marked area; everybody wearing safety glasses can go wherever they need to.

Looking at the load-in diagram (I don't have a pit map), the run to Curie would run from the corner entrance area around Pit Admin. Ideally, Galileo and Curie pits in that area would be swapped, and the aisle right behind the first aid station would be widened to the minimum distance. Newton would run along the wall (15'+ wide--the wall prevents anything flying from the other side) where the robot route is now up to the end of the practice field, then go straight to the field from there. Where possible, all those paths would go along walls (lower space requirement due to the wall on one side).

[BrendanB]

If FTC expanding is what started the move of one FRC field then how about some FTC fields move to the pits for a year!

I have a serious question about the initial plans for fitting items in the new arena before the concert was in the works. IF FTC was growing and needed more space, what about the far ends of the dome? Remembering back to Atlanta there was space on the ends for some smaller event to be held like FTC or FLL.

Maybe there are some things I am not considering as I am not involved with FTC, but when someone mentioned Bill saying that with FTC growing they had to move a field but that didn't make sense to me since I remember space leftover in ATL.

my $0.02

[JesseK]

Hey, whatdya know -- the 2011 Championship Survey was just emailed to team contacts a few minutes ago.

With all of the robot cross-traffic of teams going to the Dome, I understand why it may be necessary to require safety glasses for pit fields. Yet they (possibly) could have arranged the pit fields so as to facilitate a safety zone where goggles weren't required. However, I'm sure there's some logistical/other tradeoff to doing so.

Great

• Food -- the boxed lunch was spectacularly better than either DC or VA. DC's was something next to 'god awful' and VCU's was a 'not bad', but Champ's was great. Bottled water, chips/cookies/sandwich left me hungry at 4pm rather than 2-3pm at the regionals.
• Pit field proximity to pit, and feeling like we had 'court-side seats' to some of the best matches FRC can offer spectators. If we could figure out how to increase the quantity of seating, I'd be all for pit fields next year.

Good

• For once, I didn't feel like the music was trying to rip a hole through my eardrums as we stood in queue or put the robot on the field.
• Wildstang broke 2 paradigms on my team last week (though they weren't my own POV's). They'll forever be on my 'rock stars' list becaue of it. 1.) You don't NEED high traction wheels to make it to Einstein. 2.) No, the driver coach doesn't need to micro-manage the drivers. We simply need to design the robot in such a way that gives the operators more opportunities to quickly recover from the inevitable failures (dropped tube, misalignment, etc). Thanks Raul!

Meh

• I didn't get a shirt this year, for the first time in 3 years. Honestly, I hope several others noticed their elevated prices and didn't purchase because of it.
  
• I think I stated enough about the bad in the 2011-Negative thread, but the only other thing I'd add on top of what others have stated regards the safety advisors. Safety is taken seriously most of the time, yet it's not administered evenly. That cute little WallE robot attracted crowds that would make a 20-30-foot circle, including 2 safety advisors at one point. I understand that it's very easy to lose focus at a championships; but really if they're going to be pedantic about us having too many people in front of our pit, they need to be pedantic about the other situations that happen as well.

[Debbie]

Originally Posted by JesseK

Hey, whatdya know -- the 2011 Championship Survey was just emailed to team contacts a few minutes ago.

[*]Food -- the boxed lunch was spectacularly better than either DC or VA. DC's was something next to 'god awful' and VCU's was a 'not bad', but Champ's was great.
[/list]

You must have A) not looked inside your food.. or you would've seen the mold that I found on 10 sandwiches our team ordered... and B) have a much stronger stomach than those that got sick on my team! I'm glad someone enjoyed it! It certainly wasn't me lol

[Kevin Sevcik]

Originally Posted by Bill_B

Lots of thought fodder in this thread. I'd like to see some diagrams made to support some of the relocation ideas proposed. Want larger bleacher areas? where? Better routing? sketch out what you mean. No debris zones? how can that be laid out.

Hey, you're not designing a robot for a while, why not try your hand at "venue" design.

I can't chop up the Load-In PDF at the moment, but I'm thinking you land the two fields in the hall next to 9th street, possibly oozing out into the corner of the two halls. If you keep them the same orientation as now and slide them close together, you can economize on the extra space usually taken up around fields for equipment, storage, aisles, etc. Then pits and all the other miscellanies go in the hall occupied by Newton. Yes, you'd be back to the giant labyrinth of pits, but you have to admit that the packing efficiency is a good bit higher. Plus it keeps the FRC pits completely separate from the stands, which eliminates the need for debris-free lanes, etc. And puts the fields right next to FTC in case any of them are interested in checking things out.

Yes, you could swap this around and have the fields where Newton is, but then you've got a lot of robot traffic all headed in one direction, inevitably crossing the path to the fields for the public. Plus it'd be harder to balance pit vs. field locations to keep travel distances mostly equal.

If you're concerned this puts the fields too close together and could cause cross-talk problems, then you could separate the fields more and fill up the in-between space with scholarship row, the NI and Autodesk stages, etc, etc. More added benefit there in that the public could check out those venues without the safety glasses hassle.

Mind you, that Load-In map is a complete and utter lie. I sure don't recall those spots near the fields for "Spare Parts" and "TV Viewing". And the pit layout was a little different. And that map cleverly doesn't show all the space taken up on the Curie/Archimedes border by a wall o' robot crates not even stacked double high. If space was really at a premium and we really wanted to expand things to fit in bigger bleachers, I would think we could do something better with crates than just shoving them across the aisle. I'll admit it was personally convenient during loadout since our crate was right there, I'd have gladly traded that for more seats around Curie.

[Flalex72]

Originally Posted by Chexposito

the concert had one problem that i thought i never would have seen as happening... crowd surfing started and PEOPLE WERE INJURED. from what I saw, a member of 1305 was crushed by one of these surfers. this was sickening to me because an innocent person was injured due to a concert that they went to that was designed to be a reward to their efforts. i don't know what else to say about this, maybe a no crowd surfing rule? people need to be considerate of those around them? i don't know how to fix it, but i have never heard any good stories about what happens when someone finishes their crowd "surf"...

Pleased to report that although shaken, the 1305 team member was not injured in this incident, aside from a bit of a fall to the floor. Doesn't make this incident any less of an issue though.

[vhcook]

I attended championships purely as a spectator. I spent most of my time in/near Newton. I had to leave Friday evening, so I can't comment on Saturday. For a first time in the city and venue, I think things went fairly well, but there is definitely some room for improvement.

The pit fields were very cramped. In addition, it was quite difficult to hear the person standing next to you in the pits immediately adjacent to those fields, and I needed earplugs (which were kindly provided by team 1764). I can't imagine how crowded it would have been during eliminations. Things were considerably better in the dome, plus I was able to see some FTC matches during FRC's inter-match gaps. I was delighted by the quality of many of the matches, and I had a great time talking to teams that don't normally attend the same events I do.

FIRST Conference was as usual, a delightful learning opportunity. I had a bit of trouble finding them Wednesday evening, but I had allowed extra time, so that wasn't a problem.

Food options were plentiful and good, although there was a bit of a shortage of trash cans in key areas. There was plenty of seating available for lunch. Parking was easy and reasonably priced, even when I arrived a bit late Friday morning. Traffic in and out was not a problem.

It was hard to find the ballroom for the Dean's List presentations, and since my feet were already tired the standing got a bit old. I'm short, so I ended up using my camera as a periscope to see over the sea of bodies to the stage and the screens around it. The energy level was good.

The Collegiate Aerial Robotics Demo was neat, and I'm glad I got a chance to see it.

The venue maps posted around the building were helpful, although difficult to read at my height (5'2"), and in quite a small font. In addition, the second floor was not mapped - if it had been, I wouldn't have had any trouble finding things.

All things considered, I had a wonderful time, and I'm looking forward to attending next year.

[popnbrown]

I personally can't say how I felt as a team member in the stands as I'm an alum, and my team wasn't there. But I don't think the pit fields were terrible. It seemed like you could easily talk in the pits without having to talk over ridiculously loud speakers. And it definitely helps for commute and scouting. I actually always disliked having the fields all the way in the Dome at Georgia.

First time I went in 07, we were in Archimedes which was on the farthest side from the entrance. So it was either you stay in the pits or you stay in the stands...which was terrible. I jumped back from Curie and Newton all the time. Even ran over to the dome towards the end.

Other than that, the only thing I missed was the middle outside little park in Atlanta. Good memories! And the carnival, which they tried to attempt here but didn't work out so well. The concert totally made up for that though.

Also, all the companies that were on display this time, was very very cool. I was super impressed. At how much stuff was going on and it seemed so efficient and well organized. Not to mention a bus and car that I saw, that were moving FIRST Championship ads and all the restaurants welcoming the FIRST Championships. It was pretty awesome and I'm excited to go back next year.

Edit: They should definitely add more stands, I think that addition would make it pretty great.

[Kevin Sevcik]

So first, the good things about St Louis. The trip from the pits to the dome was great for people and robots. Parking was super convenient. Pits were good and I liked the layout. Traffic wasn't too bad in and out of downtown.

I wouldn't have minded fields in the pits, if there was anything approaching adequate seating. I didn't even try to watch the Curie Elims because there wasn't any hope of getting a seat anywhere. And there were certainly a number of teams that didn't help matters by trying to save seats. Clearly some teams didn't bring their gracious professionalism.

Matters weren't helped by the strange lack of a video feed in the pits. It was pretty annoying keeping track of the current match when we were in the dome on Friday. The lack of video feed, current match display, or updated rankings list forced me to use the FRC Spyder app to keep track of things. So I found it a bit laughable when the pit announced that we shouldn't trust any iphone or android apps for match schedules. I presume we should have just rented the magic 148 ball to stay on time.

Also, I feel like I should apologize to 359 for missing their Chairman's presentation. I skipped the concert because my wife would have had a panic attack in the concert and, you know, no one ever said anything about anything important happening at that optional concert thing. It sure would've been embarrassing if my team won it and I wasn't there with them. I'm also told that the complete lack of crowd control left our team mom/regional director in fear of her life when half the student population at championships tried to shove through a small set of doors to get to the concert. So I'm still glad I skipped the concert.

And don't get me started on Load-In. One guy with handing out the wristbands and jotting down team numbers on a cardboard box? I could have dragged two kids further up the line and gotten some wristbands for team 47 in addition to team 57. Cramming everybody through four doors in the morning wasn't that great either.

Sooooooo on the whole, I think St Louis has a lot of potential, but needs some serious work on signage and crowd control to get back up to the level of Atlanta.

[fuzzwaz]

Before I give you all my thoughts, I would like to congratulate the championship winners, and especially 359- every time I was able to visit your pit during the championship I left in awe. You guys truly deserve it.

I was disappointed in a lot of things... But It was also extremely fun because I love being part of the FIRST community. Instead of going on about all the things I liked and disliked, I just want to talk about one thing.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Friday afternoon, my team was approached by a ref and told us that there were rumors going around that said that this year's 2011 chairmans award was going to be presented during the concert (AKA in a few hours). Rumors are rumors. I didn’t know what to think of it, so I didn’t worry much about it. I also had some MAJOR issues with that rumor for a lot of reasons.. Including...

-Some teams will not be attending the concert for various reasons. I know of a few teams personally who had scouting meetings or just didn’t want to go. Thankfully I am positive that all of 359 was there to accept the award, otherwise I would have been even more disappointed if they decided to reveal the winner at the concert and the team they choose being nowhere in sight.

-The judging of the award was altered to be ready for the concert. All presentations were held on Thursday, and the final decision was made before Friday night. So for the teams that were curious, that’s why it seemed as if question asking was light this year. ALTHOUGH, I FIRMLY BELIEVE THAT THEY WOULD HAVE COME TO THE SAME CONCLUSION EVEN WITH THE REGULAR JUDGING STYLE. I'm just noting that they even adjusted the way the judges had to prepare for this award (and awards in general) all for the concert.

-I think the number is 52? 52 teams compete for the chairmans award at the world championship? (or 50, 51, correct me please). I don't know how many of those teams knew about this rumor, if any. My team knew just solely because a ref of a team friend, and warned us to go. I heard a few other teams heard about it, and I also heard a lot of people did not hear about it. FIRST threw a concert so students could enjoy their time at the championship, but announcing to 51 other teams that they lost an award in the middle of a concert seemed kind of harsh to me.

-Besides all the discomfort this may have brought to a few teams, I was also unsure of the benefits this brought to the winning chairmans team. If I recall, no video was ever played, and as I anxiously waited to see excited students raise up that large clock in pure happiness, I never did. The clock was never officially handed to 359. Not to mention, I still am in love with the past's tradition of announcing the award during the finals, with ALL eyes on you. It has always seemed so magical, and everyone could just feel all the hardwork a team as done. Watching 341 stand up and start hugging each other while the crowd went wild was.. amazing to me. I REALLY hope 359 enjoyed themselves and had an amazing time at the concert, but I would not recommend FIRST does that again.

Overall.. Feel free to disagree with my opinions. I feel like they could have handled this better. The concert was REALLY fun and awesome to watch. Better than expected in my opinion. I just feel like they could have just waited the extra day, and announced some of those awards the day later. (Although the dean's list winners on stage was something I would recommend again)

[Debbie]

Originally Posted by fuzzwaz

-I think the number is 52? 52 teams compete for the chairmans award at the world championship? (or 50, 51, correct me please). I don't know how many of those teams knew about this rumor, if any. My team knew just solely because a ref of a team friend, and warned us to go. I heard a few other teams heard about it, and I also heard a lot of people did not hear about it. FIRST threw a concert so students could enjoy their time at the championship, but announcing to 51 other teams that they lost an award in the middle of a concert seemed kind of harsh to me.

-

I can tell you that JUDGES came to our pit and told us that they were announcing Chairman's at the concert! I am not sure if they went to all pits, or just Chairman's candidates, but they did try to inform that it was happening. It did modify some of our parent's plans, but on the other hand, it was pretty neat to be a part of it and pretty special for the team that won, to have it broadcast on the television special (at least I am assuming so).

As for the event as a whole, I would say it was great! There were only 2 major issues I had...

1- being the pit fields... and the fact that people saved seats so that if you didn't save seats, you didn't get to watch your team play...despite repeated announcements from pit admin about not saving seats and letting others watch matches. I was able to sit and watch 2 of the 4 matches we played in the pit field. My team did not get to sit together for any of the 4 matches. THAT was majorly disappointing to me!!!!!! I also like having the fields close, but didn't like that it loses the feeling of "worlds" in the pit instead of being on the dome floor.. feels more like a regular regional...

and 2 -

the pre-ordered food was dangerous... Finding MOLD in 10 of my team's turkey wraps was highly unsettling.. the fact that after we returned our wraps they continued passing them out was highly disturbing to me... To pay TEN DOLLARS a meal for that meal which at best contained brown lettuce and hard cheese, and at worst.. mold.. was unacceptable... 2 of my team members got sick and I have to question if it came from the food. Most of my team did not eat the meals after the mold instance, which sadly was noticed on Saturday and not Thursday! The Finale party food was sitting in unrefrigerated crates for how long? Dangerous.. and I won't be ordering food there again, unless a new caterer is brought in.. missed the food spread at the finale party in Atlanta and the fireworks!!!!!


But.. on the good side... I liked the pit layout.. liked having all programs close.. liked having the scholarship row expanded and in there with us... liked the displays that were brought in and all of the "real life" robots that were displayed from the Air Force, and others, liked our hotel, the advertising around the city (even bookmarks in union station), liked the closer walk to the arena(though missed the outside walk and sunshine), liked the HOF teams being close by us and I could go on ...

I really appreciate all that has been done for us and it was another great FIRST experience! We met some new friends, said hi to some old friends, learned a lot and are already looking forward to next year!

Thanks to everyone for making it such a great program!

[Novi Hopper]

Originally Posted by Debbie

I can tell you that JUDGES came to our pit and told us that they were announcing Chairman's at the concert! I am not sure if they went to all pits, or just Chairman's candidates, but they did try to inform that it was happening. It did modify some of our parent's plans, but on the other hand, it was pretty neat to be a part of it and pretty special for the team that won, to have it broadcast on the television special (at least I am assuming so).

Thinking back, there were three off-duty judges that came to our pit that wanted to see us, but we had to deal with a medical issue that came up with one of our mentors and we apologized to them that we couldn't talk at the moment. However, if they were there to tell us about the concert and wish us good luck, that was still pretty late in the day- roughly at 5 or 6. Also, when I had talked to some of the students on 359 after we saw the three judges, they were not aware of the rumored announcement themselves. Our FLL team who was in the running for the Champion's Award was not informed either.

All in all, I think the concert announcement was pretty disheartening. If only Chairman's-eligible teams were the ones informed, then I would have to shake my head at FIRST for thinking that the award and the newly-crowned team should only be celebrated by a chosen few teams and the ones that just wanted to attend the concert. The event, though it will probably look nice on the ABC broadcast, seemed to devalue the Hawaiian Kid's, the FTC team's, and the FLL team's (I sadly can't remember their names) efforts by only giving them a few short sentences before quickly shoving them offstage to give the Black Eyed Peas room. You can make FIRST as loud as you want, but there's a point where you're going to get deaf to the message.

With that being said, I want to congratulate 359 and the FTC and FLL teams on three very well-deserved awards. What you guys have done for FIRST have been astounding and in the case of the Hawaiian Kids it was my pleasure to hear your story when I visited your pit on Friday.

[torihoelscher]

Originally Posted by Debbie

and 2 -

the pre-ordered food was dangerous... Finding MOLD in 10 of my team's turkey wraps was highly unsettling.. the fact that after we returned our wraps they continued passing them out was highly disturbing to me... To pay TEN DOLLARS a meal for that meal which at best contained brown lettuce and hard cheese, and at worst.. mold.. was unacceptable... 2 of my team members got sick and I have to question if it came from the food. Most of my team did not eat the meals after the mold instance, which sadly was noticed on Saturday and not Thursday! The Finale party food was sitting in unrefrigerated crates for how long? Dangerous.. and I won't be ordering food there again, unless a new caterer is brought in.. missed the food spread at the finale party in Atlanta and the fireworks!!!!!


B

Oh yes. We had the same issue. I did not feel well after eating the chicken sandwich on friday and refused to eat the finale food on Saturday. FIRST, we love ya but please get better vendors!! (Loved the dome food but really expensive)

[1986titans]

Originally Posted by Debbie

and 2 -

the pre-ordered food was dangerous... Finding MOLD in 10 of my team's turkey wraps was highly unsettling.. the fact that after we returned our wraps they continued passing them out was highly disturbing to me... To pay TEN DOLLARS a meal for that meal which at best contained brown lettuce and hard cheese, and at worst.. mold.. was unacceptable... 2 of my team members got sick and I have to question if it came from the food. Most of my team did not eat the meals after the mold instance, which sadly was noticed on Saturday and not Thursday! The Finale party food was sitting in unrefrigerated crates for how long? Dangerous.. and I won't be ordering food there again, unless a new caterer is brought in.. missed the food spread at the finale party in Atlanta and the fireworks!!!!!

Same here. I had a turkey wrap on Saturday and stopped eating it after I tasted something weird. At the time, I thought it was Mayo that wasn't on the one I had on Friday or something. I was very sick Saturday night, so this seems like a likely culprit.