Einstein seating: possible solution

[Whirliebird]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

Your choices are:

• Greensboro Coliseum in Greensboro, NC.
• Oklahoma City Arena in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma (technically under 20k in basketball configuration)

I live in Greensboro, and have attended many events at our coliseum. I'd worry about trying to host the Championship there. In addition to only having city buses, the coliseum and special events center is much smaller than the Atlanta and St. Louis Centers. I think there are only about 180,000 square feet in the special events center. Furthermore, I don't think there is a straight path from the convention center to the arena; a loading dock separates the two. Maybe Greensboro could be good for a regional championship. However, a natatorium with three pools is being built. If we see anything here, I guarantee you: Water Game!

[jblay]

Originally Posted by Chris Hibner

Here is what I would REALLY like to see for a future championship.

1) Get rid of domes. They're such big caverns that the atmosphere is usually bad, the site lines are bad, etc.

2) Find a convention center next to a 20k-25k seat basketball arena.

3) Put one field in the arena and three fields in the pits (hey, I loved the pit fields - just get more seats).

4) Cycle the divisions through the arena field (thurs afternoon Curie, Friday morning, Newton, etc.) and the rest of the matches on the smaller fields. Remember the old days when they did this at EPCOT? It worked just fine.

5) Awards ceremony and Einstein matches in the basketball area, which would be JAMMED PACKED with spectators. The view would be good, and the atmosphere would be absolutely electric. It would feel like the NCAA basketball championship or game 7 of the Stanley Cup.

Wow that is a really awesome idea. I too was fine with the pit fields and this would make Einstein and playing in the arena so amazing. You could even pull this off in a dome by filling up the field with bleachers considering FIRST is probably already locked into a few years in St. Louis.

[Marc S.]

Originally Posted by Chris Hibner

Here is what I would REALLY like to see for a future championship.

...

2) Find a convention center next to a 20k-25k seat basketball arena.

...

The only problem I see with this is that there were 20k-30k people in the dome watching Einstein. That means that a smaller dome/arena will be MORE Packed with less room to move around. That doesn' seem like a better atmosephere to me.


On a separate note, I would like to see opening ceremonies shown on all of the field screens. 10k+ people trying to get from the pits to the dome and then back again all at once in a hury seems like a bit of a saftey hazard. And to think that there could have been a similar situation in BOTH directions is kind've scary.

[Chris Hibner]

Originally Posted by Marc S.

The only problem I see with this is that there were 20k-30k people in the dome watching Einstein. That means that a smaller dome/arena will be MORE Packed with less room to move around. That doesn' seem like a better atmosephere to me.

I think a lot fewer people watch Einstein than a lot of people think.

The Edward Jones dome capacity is 66,965, which is close enough to 67000.

If every seat was full from the Newton field to the Curie filed (50 yard line to 50 yard line), that would be 33,500. There was basically no one sitting around the corners (i.e. on the sidelines of the football field), which means maybe half of the 33,500 was being used. That puts an upper limit on the spectators at 16,750. I also don't think that the upper deck was nearly 100% full, which reduces that number further.

I would put a high estimate at 15,000 people watching Einstein from the seats, so a 20,000+ seat arena should be plenty.

(BTW, sorry for derailing your thread, Bryan.)

[IKE]

Originally Posted by Chris Hibner

I would put a high estimate at 15,000 people watching Einstein from the seats, so a 20,000+ seat arena should be plenty.

(BTW, sorry for derailing your thread, Bryan.)

Also with 360 teams on average having 40 supporters, I still only get to 14,400. I understand that others from FTC and FLL will also be there, but I agree with Chris that 20K is probably a soild upper end estimate.

What was on the Back-side of Einstein? I would think there might be an excellent spot to put the 12 teams actually in einstein in bleachers on either side. This would likely free up a lot of "saved" room in the middle.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by IKE

What was on the Back-side of Einstein? I would think there might be an excellent spot to put the 12 teams actually in einstein in bleachers on either side. This would likely free up a lot of "saved" room in the middle.

It looked like A/V equipment and a lot of storage. Overall, there was a lot less empty space then at the Georgia Dome.

[Chris_Elston]

Originally Posted by Chris Hibner

2) Find a convention center next to a 20k-25k seat basketball arena.

Conceso Fieldhouse, Indy. 18K seats.
http://www.seats3d.com/nba/indiana_pacers/

3 Blocks away Convention Center or of course Lucas Oil Stadium.
http://www.lucasoilstadium.com/Asset...wntown_Map.jpg

[TJ92]

Cobo Hall makes just too much sense! Think about it.
-Greatest concentration of FRC teams in the immediate area. (roughly 80 teams could potentially commute to the event)
-2 large arenas that could hold a pair of fields each.
-The big three automakers (together probably the largest sponsors of FRC teams)
-Some parts of Detroit (particularly around Cobo) are not bad at all, and are actually vibrant urban communities
-No fields in the pits.
-Wings might not be playing there by the time it is feasible, leaving The Joe empty and desperate for events

[dodar]

I say the Orlando Convention Center would work amazingly, but youd have those bleachers like they had in the pits this year for all the seating, unlike an arena seating.

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by TJ92

Wings might not be playing there by the time it is feasible, leaving The Joe empty and desperate for events

Wings haven't missed the playoffs since FIRST was founded, I can't imagine the Arena is going to book anything during playoffs until they are definitely out.

NHL/NBA playoffs knock out the majority of large capacity Basketball and Hockey venues.

[TJ92]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

Wings haven't missed the playoffs since FIRST was founded, I can't imagine the Arena is going to book anything during playoffs until they are definitely out.

NHL/NBA playoffs knock out the majority of large capacity Basketball and Hockey venues.

You are indeed correct about the Wings chances of missing the playoffs. They have the longest streak amongst porfessional sports for playoff appearences ever (I think, don't quote me on it). However, I was refering to the fact that the Wings have been lobbying for a new/renovated arena for a year or two now. Admittedly Joe Louis Arena isn't the nicest venue in the world. There is a remote possiblility that they could move their home venue from the Joe to The Palace of Auburn Hills if they get no tangible feedback from the city of Detroit.

As for the comments by seveal people that Michigan is the exact opposite of the ideal place to hold WCs. I would like to ask if you are satisfied with a situation where each state has roughly 1 FRC team for every 58,000 citizens. Does FRC only have the chance to grow to up to 5,250 US teams?That sounds like a large number, yet consider the number of secondary schools in the US. There are approximately 37,000 public and private high schhols in America, most of them completely capable of supporting an FRC team. The largest roadblock however is money. Due to the district structure and the concentration of FRC teams within the state of Michigan, Michigan is the closest of any region to becoming the ideal region. If one model region is fostered and grown others will follow. By bringing the FIRST Championships to Michigan I argue that an unprecidented amount of growth would occur across the US and Canada (due to its proximity).

My reasoning being that so many teams exist in Michigan, and Michigan teams are amongst the best teams a starting "mentored" FRC teams (see 3538, 3773, and 3539 as examples) that giving them a resource as great as the FIRST Championship would ony accelerate growth in the Michigan market. The next reason FIRST stands the greated benifit by holding champinships in Michigan is the potential for sponsorship revenue. As a group Michigan is a quite well funded region, however with increased growth comes a need for increased revenue. By placing the CMPs directly into the backyard of many large local corporations, Michigan would recieve the sponsorships necessary to gain more teams.

Under my belief that the US can support as many teams as there are high schools there is room for 1,200 teams in Michigan so long as sufficient funds are available. The reason other regions would benifit from Michigan's growth is this. Government reacts slowly to things, yet it will eventually respond. If Michigan is able to have a total number of teams approximately equal to 350 within several years of gaining the CMP, it could possibly kickstart widescale recognition of FRC by local districts and state legislatures. Eventually school districts will realize it is more worthwhille giving their robotics team 15K than drowning 90k in the heating costs for a high school swimming pool (Monroe Public Schools spends $92,000 a year on swimming pool upkeep, with virtually no revenue sources or educational value in it).

The more teams there are the more visible FIRST is. The more visible FIRST is the more attention it gets. The faster a single region gains visibility the faster other regional gain revenue from the increased visibility of the other region. The faster other regions become visible the quicker these regions gain teams.

Sorry for that extremely long thought, and the typos; I had to do this using IE.

[Pavan Dave]

Originally Posted by Chris_Elston

Conceso Fieldhouse, Indy. 18K seats.
http://www.seats3d.com/nba/indiana_pacers/

3 Blocks away Convention Center or of course Lucas Oil Stadium.
http://www.lucasoilstadium.com/Asset...wntown_Map.jpg

I would say Reliant Stadium, Reliant Arena, and the Reliant Astrodome (In Houston) would be much closer and could accommodate more people.

They have done CMPS at the Stadium/Dome combo before, and our regional competitions used to be at the Arena.

I think it is doable. Especially since both venues are HUGE.

[Racer26]

Originally Posted by Pavan Dave

I would say Reliant Stadium, Reliant Arena, and the Reliant Astrodome (In Houston) would be much closer and could accommodate more people.

They have done CMPS at the Stadium/Dome combo before, and our regional competitions used to be at the Arena.

I think it is doable. Especially since both venues are HUGE.

I'm not sure exactly why, but Championship 2003 (the first and only year it was held in Houston, TX), was an absolute catastrophe. I remember hearing something about 'bumps'.

As for SkyDome/MTCC in Toronto, It would be awesome, and doable, however, I seriously doubt they'll ever hold championships outside of the continental US, if only because it simplifies travel plans for the majority of teams.

[JamesBrown]

Originally Posted by BJC

1. Giant TV/ Suite seating:
-Einstein currently lies directly in front of the big projecting screen and suite seating which is situated on the second level of the arena taking up basically all potential seating in front of the field on the second level.

Any one know if these suites are used to entertain VIPs? There has been no shortage of VIPs at FIRST events, FIRST brings in some big name execs to champs to gather support and sponsorships, these people are used to a certain standard of reception and I would be surprised if that isn't what the suites are used for. I know some one will argue that teams should get seating priority and FIRST should not reduce their experience to raise the experience for a few but I think it is obviously necessary to provided a great experience to VIPs.

[bduddy]

Originally Posted by JamesBrown

Any one know if these suites are used to entertain VIPs? There has been no shortage of VIPs at FIRST events, FIRST brings in ssome big name execs to champs to gather support and sponsorships, these people are used to a certain standard of reception and I would be surprised if that isn't what the suites are used for. I know some one will argue that teams should get seating priority and FIRST should not reduce their experience to raise the experience for a few but I think it is obviously necessary to provided a great experience to VIPs.

I wandered around the suite level before the matches on Einstein started; it looked like FIRST had done something in them at some point, but they all looked empty on Saturday afternoon.