Michigan, be honest, how is the district model?

[pafwl]

I am part of Mid Atlantic Robotics a new 501 c3 non profit recently created to look into the district model in NJ, DE and Eastern PA. I know folks are working very hard on this.

Can you be honest and tell us how the Michigan District Model is working. We hear it is great. Please level with us.

What is working, what is not working, and what was completely missed?

Many thanks in advance...

Frank Larkin Director-at-Large
Mid Atlantic Robotics.

[mobilegamer999]

I am a from a Michigan team, and I was around from before the district model was used, and I would say, that it has major benefits and drawbacks. The biggest drawback is the extra cost to have to go to state and then to nationals. But the big advantage is the fact that limiting teams by a second level of competition makes for much more challenging opponents at nationals.

[GGCO]

I'm actually on the same team as mobilegamer, and would have to agree with him.

The added level(s) of competition are very beneficial as you get to perfect your game as the season progresses. The added time gives you a competitive advantage once you get to nationals, but as mobilegamer said the added cost of State and *potentially* Nationals is difficult for teams to pay. Especially in Michigan.

I honestly don't see why FIRST doesn't allow FIRSTInMichigan to run our own State championship - other than they enjoy lining their pockets. Costs would significantly decrease.

Other than that, the smaller district events are more exciting and fast paced. Also they feel more "local" - everyone knows each other. This makes these events feel more competitive and friendly. It's really cool to see a new member meet new people from different communities and schools.

[sgreco]

Why are you both calling the state championship an extra-cost? Isn't it the same as a regional? If anything it's cheaper because of the district model, not more expensive. I believe 2 Districts and state Championships still isn't the cost of 2 regionals. 3 events for a cheaper cost than 2 sounds like a deal to me.

My point is it's neither a drawback nor an advantage compared to the standard system elsewhere. If anything it's cheaper.

[mobilegamer999]

Originally Posted by sgreco

Why are you both calling the state championship an extra-cost? Isn't it the same as a regional? If anything it's cheaper because of the district model, not more expensive. I believe 3 Districts and state Championships still isn't the cost of 2 regionals. That is cheaper, not more expensive.

No, in Michigan, we have to pay the cost for 2 regional events which is the same cost as other state's district events, then if you do good enough at the regionals, then you have to pay another separate entry fee for state

[sgreco]

Originally Posted by mobilegamer999

No, in Michigan, we have to pay the cost for 2 regional events which is the same cost as other state's district events, then if you do good enough at the regionals, then you have to pay another separate entry fee for state

Yeah, but Districts aren't $4000 each like regionals are.

[mobilegamer999]

At start of season, $4000 gets you the KOP and 2 district events in michigan, and KOP and 2 regional events outside of michigan, then in Michigan, its an extra $5,000 for states if you go to state

[sgreco]

Originally Posted by mobilegamer999

At start of season, $4000 gets you the KOP and 2 district events in michigan, and KOP and 2 regional events outside of michigan, then in Michigan, its an extra $5,000 for states if you go to state

No, $5000 gets you a KOP and 1 regional outiside of Michigan...$9000 gets you 2 regionals and a KOP. Trust me, Michigan is cheaper.

[mobilegamer999]

Originally Posted by sgreco

No, $5000 gets you a KOP and 1 regional outiside of Michigan...$9000 gets you 2 regionals and a KOP.

Okay, just looked at USFirst's website and I was wrong, I thought non-Michigan teams got 2 regionals, but in fact they only get one. So the cost of 2 regionals IS the same as 2 district events, however, registration is not the only expense, transportation, lodging and food can rack up a hefty difference between 2 and 3 events.

[sgreco]

Originally Posted by mobilegamer999

So the cost of 2 regionals IS the same as 2 district events.

No. You get 2 districts for and KOP for your entry (I think it's $5000). In order to do two regionals, you need to pay $5000 for the KOP and 1 regional, then another $4000 for your second. That's $9000 for 2 events. You are paying $5000. Michigan districts are cheaper.

2 districts and State champs is the cost of 2 regionals.

Edit: Nicholas beat me to it.

[ratdude747]

I may not be from Michigan but I DO remember the pre district era.

my biggest beef is it makes those not in Michigan locked out of Michigan. I remember going to great lakes rgional on 1747, and All i have to say it was one of my favorite regionals I've ever been to.

in my current position, if we went to states only, being in Kentucky in Louisville means that if there ever was a team on the Indiana side (one of my 5 year goals), we would be locked out of a district in Louisville. Which is imho, DUMB. We would have to go to at least Columbus, IN for the closest major Indiana City, which is about 1 hour away when there is a much larger city 10 min away across a bridge.

Also, I liked getting an excuse to go long distances by going to a far away, exotic regional. It was an added perk that in the past was something that attracted new members on the borderline of joining.

maybe have districts without the state championship and getting any award at the district with a trophy would get you to St. Louis (or wherever it is that year). anybody could go to any district competition, with a limit on how many per year (say 4 or so). that way, there would be less of a borders issue so Canadian teams on the border could go to US districts, Kentucky teams to Indiana districts, etc.

just my $0.02 on the issue.

[DonRotolo]

For what it's worth, MAR has posted a link to their July 11, 2011 forum, which covers most of the issues at hand, including those mostly decided and those still up in the air.

Here is the link

It's an hour and a half, but goes into great depth, particularly the discussions at the end.

[FaceXTheXMuzic]

Even though the cost to attend state and nationals separately goes up, the cost of traveling goes down because you don't have to travel across state lines to attend events. I like the way things are in Michigan now. However, I suppose my preference is biased because I wasn't around before they changed everything. Still, from what I've heard, I prefer it the new way. It's helped our team a lot.

[Aren Siekmeier]

[Edit] Looks like Nicholas got it well ahead of me... [/Edit]

OK I see lots of different stuff flying around, so I'll try to put it all to rest.

http://www.usfirst.org/roboticsprogr...nt.aspx?id=460

Teams outside of MI pay $5000 for 1 regional and 1 KoP
Teams in MI pay $5000 for 2 districts and 1 KoP
Each additional regional is $4000
A 3rd MI district is $500 (I'm assuming you can only attend 3?)
MI State is $4000 (for MI teams only)
The World Championship is $5000

So with those numbers in front of me, the district system seems like it might be a good deal. But there are certainly a multitude of other factors to assess.

[maverickfan138]

To reiterate what has been said, there are many advantages and disadvantages to the Michigan model. I'll start with the advantages.

The cost has already been mentioned. It allows for teams to go to more events, which is what everybody wants, right? After two FIRST seasons, I have competed in eight events. The level of competition has already been mentioned as well. At certain districts, it may not be very competitive, but the State Championship is a blast. Watching teams nearly fill up the racks this past year made it very exciting. One of my favorite parts of FiM stems from competing at more events. I have been able to meet a lot of people from all over the state. Factoring offseason competitions and other events, I have been able to build relationships with not just other students, but alumni, volunteers, and mentors. FiM has a very friendly atmosphere and makes it very easy to build connections.

I do have a few things I don't like about FiM though. The first has to do with this year specifically. I did not like how competition winners did not get an auto-bye into the State Championship. Chairman's, Engineering Inspiration, and one other cultural award did not receive any qualifying points for the State Championship as well. I heard the reason behind this was the separate the cultural awards from other awards and highlight them as special. Instead, I think they should award teams with more qualifying points than regular awards. The biggest problem I see with FiM is that it does seem to isolate teams. Sure, you have teams like 217, 67, 469, etc who already have a name for themselves and everybody knows who they are, but at the saem time, there are plenty of other high caliber teams in Michigan who out of state teams have no clue who they are. In the state of Michigan, teams like 2337, 1918, 2137, 201, 1718, etc. are considered(well, I do, but I'm sure many others do as well) up there with 217, 67, 469, etc., a force to be reckoned with. I'm sure these teams find it very difficult to make a name for themselves down at the Championship, even with their performance on the field.