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Unread 09-17-2011, 06:12 AM
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Post Historic FIRST data wanted

Hey everyone,

I'm compiling (or attempting to compile) all the information on FRC teams and seasons from 1992 to 2002 (up until the current TIMS system took over in 2003). So far I have collected quite a bit of data, but could use more. Currently I'm in need of:
  • Awards and their recipients from 1992 and 1993
  • Match data from 1992 - 2000

Keep in mind that I'm trying to keep this as accurate as possible. Anything you can do to confirm your claim is greatly appreciated; be it a picture of the trophy itself proving its existence, a news clipping, or an official press release to document the outcome of the event.

Thanks,
Q. Sheets

The compilation thus far - (Excel, iWork, PDF)

Last edited by Q. Sheets : 09-17-2011 at 03:32 PM.
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Unread 09-17-2011, 07:48 AM
Andrew Schreiber Andrew Schreiber is offline
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Re: Historic FIRST data wanted

http://www.team358.org/files/frc_records/AllAwards.xls There are the awards 1992-Present. Thank You Mark!
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Unread 09-17-2011, 08:47 AM
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Re: Historic FIRST data wanted

we have ours on our website, core2062.com.
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Unread 09-17-2011, 10:03 AM
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Re: Historic FIRST data wanted

I'll add my own desired historical data if anyone has access to these:
  • Temporary team numbers list for 1996
  • I have most game rules, but need the Complete Game Manuals for: 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 2000
    Lacking full manuals then:
    • The basic game rules for 1994, 1995
    • Kit checklists for 1994, 1995, 1996
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Last edited by Mark McLeod : 09-17-2011 at 03:06 PM.
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Unread 09-17-2011, 02:29 PM
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Re: Historic FIRST data wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber View Post
http://www.team358.org/files/frc_records/AllAwards.xls There are the awards 1992-Present. Thank You Mark!
While this list is great (and it is), there's no documentation to go along with it that confirms its findings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McLeod View Post
I'll add my own desired historical data if anyone has access to these:
  • Temporary team numbers list for 1996
  • I have most game rules, but need the Complete Game Manuals for: 1992, 1993, 1994, 1995, 2000
    Lacking full manuals then:
    • The basic game rules for 1994, 1995
    • Kit checklists for 1994, 1995, 1996
I think I can help you with that list. I just uploaded the 2000 Game Manual (note - any link not crossed out works).
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Unread 09-17-2011, 03:04 PM
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Re: Historic FIRST data wanted

Thanks for the 2000 manual. I keep records on the Kit of Parts changes over the years, so the Kit stuff is really helpful.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q. Sheets View Post
...there's no documentation to go along with it that confirms its findings.
The data sources for that list are documented at the bottom of the webpage that the list comes from. The same original sources you're using are there plus some others. Not all details are there, for instance, individual corrections we've received over the years aren't all listed.

Be aware that FIRST does have errors in some of those published lists, so try to get multiple confirming sources when you get to your validation phase. We began with an older FIRST database that we archived before FIRST discarded it, but it too had data entry errors that had to be reconciled against other documentation. The current FIRST database also has data entry errors and omissions that have to be backfilled.
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Last edited by Mark McLeod : 09-17-2011 at 03:09 PM.
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Unread 09-17-2011, 05:23 PM
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Re: Historic FIRST data wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McLeod View Post
The data sources for that list are documented at the bottom of the webpage that the list comes from. The same original sources you're using are there plus some others. Not all details are there, for instance, individual corrections we've received over the years aren't all listed.
The problem I find with your sources is that though the sources say 1992-1999 and 1992-2000, the only data from the 1992-1994 seasons ever put on the FIRST website were the lists of teams and sponsors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McLeod View Post
Be aware that FIRST does have errors in some of those published lists, so try to get multiple confirming sources when you get to your validation phase. We began with an older FIRST database that we archived before FIRST discarded it, but it too had data entry errors that had to be reconciled against other documentation. The current FIRST database also has data entry errors and omissions that have to be backfilled.
The discrepancy listed in the AllAwards spreadsheet, actually looks like an error of miscommunication. It read, "2005 Indiana Boilermaker: Entrepreneurship claimed by both 868 & 234 (234 has the trophy though)." When looking at the official results, 868 won it at Boilermaker and 234 won it at the Florida Regional (which the award at that event isn't even listed on their website).
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Unread 09-17-2011, 06:09 PM
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Re: Historic FIRST data wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Q. Sheets View Post
The problem I find with your sources is that though the sources say 1992-1999 and 1992-2000, the only data from the 1992-1994 seasons ever put on the FIRST website were the lists of teams and sponsors.
Yea, we both have run into that roadblock since those are the same sources you're referencing. That's why the original sources are linked, so people can see what data was contributed by those sources if they are interested in doing the same digging.
Hopefully you'll turn up some new sources. Teams/mentors from that era have given me a few of the awards, but no one ever seems to remember what anyone else got.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Q. Sheets View Post
The discrepancy listed in the AllAwards spreadsheet, actually looks like an error of miscommunication. It read, "2005 Indiana Boilermaker: Entrepreneurship claimed by both 868 & 234 (234 has the trophy though)." When looking at the official results, 868 won it at Boilermaker and 234 won it at the Florida Regional (which the award at that event isn't even listed on their website).
234 told me they have the trophy from winning it at Boilermaker.
I only listed that discrepancy because I haven't heard from 868.

Other discrepancies that have been reconciled are not noted in that spreadsheet. Obvious ones such as when teams are listed as winning awards at Regionals the team didn't attend (2003 animation was a notable exception since teams didn't have to attend to submit).
When you start reconciling and cross checking you'll start seeing those.
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Unread 09-17-2011, 06:23 PM
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Re: Historic FIRST data wanted

Team 45, Technokats, had a press release from just after the 1994 competition that lists all the award winners.

Note: I did email FIRST to see if they happened to have an archive with press releases from 1992 and 1993. Michelle Normand (the most helpful lady ever) emailed me back saying they were unable to find any going back that far.

If any teams have paper archives they can scan and post, it will be appreciated. Maybe we can help FIRST build an archive.
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Last edited by Q. Sheets : 09-17-2011 at 06:26 PM.
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Unread 09-17-2011, 07:52 PM
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Re: Historic FIRST data wanted

All,

The TechnoKats have just updated their website and there are a bunch of documents in their History Project page. This may help.

Sincerely,
Andy Baker
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Unread 09-17-2011, 08:01 PM
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Re: Historic FIRST data wanted

Great!
Glad to have that back, and with more historical records than ever!
P.S. I like the picture of the Kit of Parts from 1992 and a partial list of awards (without winners) tells me I'm missing at least 4 more awards (I have 9 winners from various sources).

A lot of the team lists and awards info was extracted from some of your stuff that filled in missing holes and contributed as secondary sources to help in validating the FIRST data.
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Last edited by Mark McLeod : 09-18-2011 at 08:09 AM.
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Unread 09-17-2011, 10:37 PM
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Re: Historic FIRST data wanted

108 *might* have something. I'm not sure though, since the system we had was from awhile ago. We had a pretty awesome system, SOAP (don't know if anyone remembers it, it's been a few years since it was done). I know you check out TBA (The Blue Alliance) and they have a lot, or FIRSTwiki might have some. But again, not sure.
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Unread 09-17-2011, 10:56 PM
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Re: Historic FIRST data wanted

I think I found the site from someone on Chief Delphi. This site has a copy of most old game manuals. Didn't see it posted yet so hope it helps.

http://www.first-a-holics.com/competitions/
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Unread 09-19-2011, 02:07 PM
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Re: Historic FIRST data wanted

The latest TechnoKats History Project had some of the game manuals I was missing.
Still missing Awards from:
  • Non-Manchester regionals in 1996 & 1995 (Charlotte, NC & Dallas, TX). Missing those event team lists, too.
  • 1992 partial awards (have 9, but at least 4 others are unknown)
  • 1993 partial awards (have 4, missing at least 7 others)
Missing Game Manual from 1994
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Last edited by Mark McLeod : 09-19-2011 at 02:29 PM.
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Unread 09-19-2011, 10:56 PM
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Re: Historic FIRST data wanted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark McLeod View Post
The latest TechnoKats History Project had some of the game manuals I was missing.
Still missing Awards from:
  • Non-Manchester regionals in 1996 & 1995 (Charlotte, NC & Dallas, TX). Missing those event team lists, too.
Are we sure these events happened? I found evidence that NC was planned in 1995, but no evidence of it occurring. For example, in the planned documentation, two P&G teams (Aiken HS & Walnut Hills HS) are set to attend NC and not NE; however in the official document, they attended NE.

This wouldn't have been the first time FIRST wanted to expand and wasn't able to do so. Though expansion would have been nice, maybe it wasn't completely feasible.
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