How will they top WILL I AM?

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

I think some of you guys are a little harsh on the minibots!

Dr. Joe made a prediction in our lab a couple weeks ago, and I am fully on board with it. He basically predicted that minibots would return, but would be REQUIRED to be smart, and not necessarily by rules, but by necessity to complete the task. The example he gave was completing a maze.

I think in an implementation like that, minibots have the potential to be a very cool and different aspect to games that we haven't seen before. It helps break up the somewhat repeatable actions of handling some sort of ball, picking up some kind of tube and placing it on a peg, hanging from a bar of some sorts, etc.

-Brando

In an application like this that requires cooperation between utilizing the FTC hardware and FRC I'd be ok. In a drag race where the optimal solution is to not use any FTC parts other than what is required I think minibots were pointless. They wanted us to work with FTC teams, which I am all for*, but they made a challenge that didn't play to the strengths of the FTC teams and didn't require anything other than their motors (which even FTC students bad mouth).


*I put my money where my mouth is and am mentoring an FTC team right now so I have a basis for comparison between systems. So far I have some things I'm impressed with and some things I'm less than impressed with.

[thefro526]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

I think some of you guys are a little harsh on the minibots!

Dr. Joe made a prediction in our lab a couple weeks ago, and I am fully on board with it. He basically predicted that minibots would return, but would be REQUIRED to be smart, and not necessarily by rules, but by necessity to complete the task. The example he gave was completing a maze.

-Brando

I hope Dr. Joe's prediction doesn't come true.

We struggle to make our FRC robot 'Smart'....

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

In an application like this that requires cooperation between utilizing the FTC hardware and FRC I'd be ok. In a drag race where the optimal solution is to not use any FTC parts other than what is required I think minibots were pointless.

I think for teams who did the work and made effective minibots even without FTC parts, they weren't completely pointless. They certainly were not what FIRST intended them to be, nor did they accomplish what FIRST wanted them to, but it was still an engaging design challenge so I can't call it pointless.

I think the potential is there for the minis to come back as smart minis that will be better suited for the FTC/FRC mesh that FIRST is going for. Do I totally agree with that? Not really, but I still think the theory behind that type of integration is somewhat sound.

Originally Posted by thefro526

I hope Dr. Joe's prediction doesn't come true.

We struggle to make our FRC robot 'Smart'....

Continuous improvement man! Keep on pushing the envelope.

-Brando

[Ninja_Bait]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

I think some of you guys are a little harsh on the minibots!

Dr. Joe made a prediction in our lab a couple weeks ago, and I am fully on board with it. He basically predicted that minibots would return, but would be REQUIRED to be smart, and not necessarily by rules, but by necessity to complete the task. The example he gave was completing a maze.

I think in an implementation like that, minibots have the potential to be a very cool and different aspect to games that we haven't seen before. It helps break up the somewhat repeatable actions of handling some sort of ball, picking up some kind of tube and placing it on a peg, hanging from a bar of some sorts, etc.

-Brando

It's still an annoying distraction. They're basically asking us to make two robots to be successful every year, when many teams still are barely making one robot, for whatever reason. It disadvantages many fledgling teams. Also, it detracts from the competition experience - small robots are hard to watch from the stands, and once there is a standout design (even if it has to be smart, it has to work really well), most teams have time between competitions to duplicate it, leading to the identical minibot issue.

Originally Posted by Ninja_Bait

...and once there is a standout design (even if it has to be smart, it has to work really well), most teams have time between competitions to duplicate it, leading to the identical minibot issue.

That's the main reason I do not want to see minibots again (there are others). I've seen robot designs simulated or even copied at times, but that's not the only factor that controls whether or not a robot succeeds. Robots also have drivers. "Smart" minibots, however, don't have drivers, and if a good "smart" minibot is created, many teams will end up doing the exact same thing, creating "smart" minibots that all work exactly the same, with no change in the way the minibot runs.

Also, like mentioned, minibots were tiny, and hard to see unless one was up close. Plus, there wasn't a real difference. They were deployed usually 1 of about 4 ways, and they all did the same thing the same way (go up the pole).

In previous year's endgames, things could always change.You could shoot a special game piece into an opponent's trailer (different ways each time), you could hang from different parts of the towers different ways. You could even block someone hanging without any ridiculous red cards.

So all in all, PLEASE have no minibots, and be a bit lighter on the penalties, especially the ones in defending!

[Tom Line]

Originally Posted by Brandon Holley

I think some of you guys are a little harsh on the minibots!

Dr. Joe made a prediction in our lab a couple weeks ago, and I am fully on board with it. He basically predicted that minibots would return, but would be REQUIRED to be smart, and not necessarily by rules, but by necessity to complete the task. The example he gave was completing a maze.

I think in an implementation like that, minibots have the potential to be a very cool and different aspect to games that we haven't seen before. It helps break up the somewhat repeatable actions of handling some sort of ball, picking up some kind of tube and placing it on a peg, hanging from a bar of some sorts, etc.

-Brando

If they don't walk out onto the stage with a minibot in hand and throw it in the garbage, I'll be fairly disappointed.

[Brandon Holley]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

If they don't walk out onto the stage with a minibot in hand and throw it in the garbage, I'll be fairly disappointed.

I get the minibot frustration, believe me. But, does everyone really feel that there is no way a miniature robot can be a creative and effective aspect to a game? I dont know if its the optimist in me or what, but I think that idea has potential, just last years execution was about as bad as could be.

-Brando

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Tom Line

If they don't walk out onto the stage with a minibot in hand and throw it in the garbage, I'll be fairly disappointed.

Amen to that.

I expect to be disappointed though. I don't think FIRST understands how uneven the playing field was made by minibots. You NEEDED to do the minibot, and in order to do the minibot well, you needed to burn through motors. I seriously hope that the "next" minibot challenge does not actually use FTC parts, because FRC teams will push performance to the limit and break those again and again.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by JaneYoung

I'm interested in why Cory is willing to make that bet.


Jane

Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber

this will allow FIRST to do some more interesting things such as having guests speak who would otherwise be unavailable for 2+ days to fly to frigid NH.

^This. Plus it just doesn't feel like a decision that was made based on circumstance specific to this year.

[Ninja_Bait]

It's also possible they want to show something that is difficult to do live, like driving a robot with the kinect on the demo field.

The problem is that they have prerecorded segments every year. Why not just be partially live, and partially prerecorded like usual?

[Andrew Schreiber]

Originally Posted by Ninja_Bait

It's also possible they want to show something that is difficult to do live, like driving a robot with the kinect on the demo field.

The problem is that they have prerecorded segments every year. Why not just be partially live, and partially prerecorded like usual?

$$$?

[Taylor]

I think the best way to top Will.i.am is with Will.i.am.
Rather than have the man stand uncomfortably on the side with his silver satchel, bringing him in to the center to have him mutter "it's dope" - engage him. Let him use his talents, his skills, his roladex to bring in other stars of the screen and stage to promote the event. If he could get the likes of Justin Timberlake, Jack Black, Steven Tyler, and Bono to do promotional snippets for his ABC special, imagine what he can do for a planned, known, annual event!

-also-

He's been promoting a song that he will release when Curiosity lands on Mars. Can we look for T.H.F. (The Hardest Fun) to come out on January 7th?

[Ninja_Bait]

Originally Posted by Taylor

Let him use... his roladex

Really, a Roladex? How quaint.

Originally Posted by Ian Curtis

I hope the game animation is good. It'll be a little sad if the Plowbot gag doesn't continue to demonstrate that robots need to be built for impacts like Dave always used to do.

I doubt they'll change anything for the animation. They've been using the same six or seven robots for ages and it works fine.

[pandamonium]

Originally Posted by Taylor

I think the best way to top Will.i.am is with Will.i.am.
Rather than have the man stand uncomfortably on the side with his silver satchel, bringing him in to the center to have him mutter "it's dope" - engage him. Let him use his talents, his skills, his roladex to bring in other stars of the screen and stage to promote the event. If he could get the likes of Justin Timberlake, Jack Black, Steven Tyler, and Bono to do promotional snippets for his ABC special, imagine what he can do for a planned, known, annual event!

-also-

He's been promoting a song that he will release when Curiosity lands on Mars. Can we look for T.H.F. (The Hardest Fun) to come out on January 7th?

The song actually is T.H.E. The Hardest Ever but nice try

[Robert Cawthon]

Originally Posted by Ninja_Bait

It's also possible they want to show something that is difficult to do live, like driving a robot with the kinect on the demo field.

The problem is that they have prerecorded segments every year. Why not just be partially live, and partially prerecorded like usual?

Is it possible that some of the main players will not be available for some reason? I am sure that they would want to be there and plan accordingly, but sometimes they can't be avoided. Maybe they have a huge snow storm planned for that weekend.