Just an idea ...

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Posted by mike aubry.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chiefs, from Pontiac Central.

Posted on 7/30/99 7:36 PM MST



The other night I fell asleep and dreamt about this years game.
When I woke up the next morning I told Joe Johnson about the game in detail.
It was a real cool game that involved alliances and was easy to keep track of the score.
The game strategies were numerous and teams could play offensively and defensively.
Interaction was limited to what might be considered 'interaction zones' (in other words - only in certain areas of the playing field)
I was very excited about the game that I had seen in my dream.
Then another thought crossed my mind!
What if FIRST encouraged people (students, teachers,coaches, engineers, everyone) to submit their ideas like the
Thanksgiving day parade planners do in Detroit.
Everyyear, a couple of kids get a great big beautiful float or balloon created based on their ideas that they submit.
There are deadlines for the submission as one might suspect, but they always leave themselves enough time to
build the float and invite the student down to the parade.
The FIRST game format could allow a whole year for planning and tweaking the chosen submission.
I have been lucky enough to help plan and develop the games that we have used for our
Chief Delphi Invitational, and can tell you that it is really alot of fun to dream up and plan new games that are fun and exciting!
And I can also tell you that creating and developing a great game takes more time than figuring out how to play it!
What do you all think? Should FIRST give something like this a try?

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Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Other on team #?, Actually, I'm a FIRST-aholic, from an undecided team for the year 2000 and I'm taking invitations :-).

Posted on 7/30/99 9:39 PM MST


In Reply to: Just an idea ... posted by mike aubry on 7/30/99 7:36 PM MST:




it does sound cool.. but even if FIRST wouldn't have a go of it.. would you tell us your idea?? I'm dying to know...

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Posted by mike aubry.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #47, Chiefs, from Pontiac Central.

Posted on 8/8/99 5:56 PM MST


In Reply to: the suspense posted by colleen on 7/30/99 9:39 PM MST:



:
: it does sound cool.. but even if FIRST wouldn't have a go of it.. would you tell us your idea?? I'm dying to know...

- Sorry it took so long to respond. I went on vacation without my computer! The details of the game
are being kept a secret because I might use it for the Cheif Delphi Invitational someday. Sorry Colleen -
maybe we'll get a chance to talk it over if I get out east this FIRST season!

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Posted by Dan.

Student on team #10, BSM, from Benilde-St. Margaret's and Banner Engineering.

Posted on 7/31/99 2:33 PM MST


In Reply to: Just an idea ... posted by mike aubry on 7/30/99 7:36 PM MST:



You have a great point. What is even more important about submitting ideas is that FIRST can get an idea of what we liked and didn't like about last year's game. So they don't necessarily have to use someone's whole idea, but they can get an idea of what revisions are popular. It seems each year's game is a reaction to the previous year's game. This year they made arena setup very easy, and tried to make scoring easy (with the velcro and 1 pointers.)
Maybe those attending the FIRST forum thingy should put together some ideas and bring em along. :-Dan

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Posted by Justin.

Other on team #t2k, None _YET_, from RWU and FIRST-A-holics Anonymous.

Posted on 8/1/99 1:49 PM MST


In Reply to: Just an idea ... posted by mike aubry on 7/30/99 7:36 PM MST:




I think your idea brings up another very big issue when it comes to FIRST. Communication. I realize that FIRST is likely doing the best that
they possibly can with the relatively limited amount of resources they have and I'm not trying to bash FIRST but it has always seemed to me
that they could not a much better job with Team Relations. I know that they have a person working this position (Lori?...I don't remember)
and they are pretty good when it comes to getting information out to the teams but when it comes to considering or taking information from
the teams they seem to be lacking. I think perhaps part of it is that there may be this mentality that they don't want to hear bad things. Well
no one does but if someone involved with FIRST be it team members, Dean, Woodie, The Disney Guy, whoever doesn't start realizing that
there are teams getting big time burnt out, stressed out, and taken to the virge of insanity then there aren't going to be any teams left in 2020
let alone 2000 of them. Again I don't want to sound like I'm completely bashing FIRST but I think that at some point they are going to have to
deal with the major issues like burn out, travel expense, the number of teams at the nationals, etc. Perhaps they are dealing with them
if they are then....let us know what is being done. I've never liked the way that things are so secret (well I understand the game design) but
if they're nogeotiating airline disconts or taking some of the other steps let us know that.

So if I'm not being a FIRST basher why am I saying all this? Well...basically I had an incredibly positive expirence over my last 4 years in FIRST
and I want to make sure that those who come behind me and that my grandchildren in 2020 will still be cometeting in FIRST (@ the Utopia Planitia
Regional perhaps?)

Pround member of FIRST-A-holics anonymous,
-Justin

P.S> I still haven't figured out how 2 format this right.

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Posted by Kyle Huang.

Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Gunn High School and Sun Microsystems, Nasa/Ames and Xerox PARC.

Posted on 8/1/99 3:10 PM MST


In Reply to: COMMUNICATION posted by Justin on 8/1/99 1:49 PM MST:



I've only been in the FIRST competition for one year, and I've also had an incredibly positive experience with it
(for the most part). I know the feeling of getting stressed out and totally burnt out by this competition... And
things like travel expenses may be obstacles, but i don't see them as problems. The way we run our team is
virtually a mirror of a startup company. Travel expenses (which are in the same pool as all our other expenses)
are paid for mainly by members' families. The way we get money, is just like a startup would. We get
appointments to give presentations to companies, in hopes that they will contribute some money to us -- small
startup companies do that same thing, except on a much larger scale. After we've collected all the money we
can for one school year (which is usually at the end of the school year), we refund parents as much as we can
with the money we have available.

As far as getting burnt out goes... It happens. Not just in this competition. It happens in companies, big and
small. Except that the smaller the company the more likely it is to get burnt out. Probably the only reason
burn outs ever occur are deadlines. And dealines exist in the real world.

I think that the FIRST competition is doing a great job of getting students tuned into engineering. All these
things are only part of the industry. Most engineers probably will not have to give a presentation to a venture
capitalist, but it has to happen sometimes. Most engineers working for big companies like GM or Bosch
probably aren't going to get burnt out quite as often or as easily, but it does happen.
So what I'm saying is that very many parts of FIRST reflect the real world. That's part of what makes FIRST so
great.

The number of teams will probably be a problem when the number grows too huge... But we'll have to wait to
see what they do about that.

As far as listening to what teams have to say about the competition, they do listen. This message board is
one of the ways they can listen. FIRST can't take all the suggestions of all teams, because for one thing, it
would take too long, and because the suggestions of each team could be only reflecting and/or benefitting
thier team. They have to do things they think would be for the good of all the teams. I'm sure if enough
people from a lot of different teams started complaining about one thing, they would change it.

And don't worry justin, you don't sound like you're bashing FIRST at all =)

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Posted by Kate.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Engineer on team #190, Gompei, from Mass Academy of Math and Science and Worcester Polytechnic Institute.

Posted on 8/1/99 4:40 PM MST


In Reply to: COMMUNICATION posted by Justin on 8/1/99 1:49 PM MST:



: So if I'm not being a FIRST basher why am I saying all this? Well...basically I had an incredibly positive expirence over my last 4 years in FIRST and I want to make sure that those who come behind me and that my grandchildren in 2020 will still be cometeting in FIRST (@ the Utopia Planitia Regional perhaps?)

You're not bashing FIRST.. It's more of constructive criticism.. And as Kyle said, that's a good thing.. Oh, and how do you figure having your grandchildren participate in FIRST in 2020?? That's only 20 years away.. And I'm thinking the whole time frame just doesn't work.. ;-)

-KATE-
Eat, Sleep, Dream FIRST.

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Posted by Justin.

Other on team #t2k, None _YET_, from RWU and FIRST-A-holics Anonymous.

Posted on 8/2/99 11:24 AM MST


In Reply to: Constructive Criticism posted by Kate on 8/1/99 4:40 PM MST:



: : So if I'm not being a FIRST basher why am I saying all this? Well...basically I had an incredibly positive expirence over my last 4 years in FIRST and I want to make sure that those who come behind me and that my grandchildren in 2020 will still be cometeting in FIRST (@ the Utopia Planitia Regional perhaps?)

: You're not bashing FIRST.. It's more of constructive criticism.. And as Kyle said, that's a good thing.. Oh, and how do you figure having your grandchildren participate in FIRST in 2020?? That's only 20 years away.. And I'm thinking the whole time frame just doesn't work.. ;-)

: -KATE-
: Eat, Sleep, Dream FIRST.

Okay so I didn't think the whole grandchildren thing through....20 years let's see I will be 40 well children then.

-justin

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Posted by Michael Martus.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Coach on team #47, Chief Delphi, from Pontiac Central H.S. and Delphi Automotives Systems.

Posted on 8/1/99 10:36 PM MST


In Reply to: COMMUNICATION posted by Justin on 8/1/99 1:49 PM MST:



Justin;

Communication is a very, very tough condition for any growing enterprise to deal with. Believe me when I tell you that this web site is monitored very closely by the fowlkes at FIRST. Many of these comments are recorded for use in their planning meetings.

This summer for the second year FIRST is having the Forum. This is one way teams can be heard. I know that for a fact. Last year I complained about team numbers and the reasons we need to keep our same numbers each year. It was finally decided at the Forum.

The Summer FIRST Forum is a teams chance to be heard. The time to express ideas with other teams, all the while FIRST fowlkes are listening. We are heard.

Regarding burnout and major team issues: This year several teams have been invited to a special Leadership meeting the day prior to the forum to do major brainstorming.
The composition and quanity of persons was very carefully selected for a diverse group, teachers, engineers and business, veterans as well as new teams. This is another way FIRST is trying to improve communication.

Look at the shear numbers of teams and persons. Then look at the number that frequent this site. A very small, but active amount participate here.
Just think how much better it would be if more teams participated in dialog like what you have expressed. Good for the entire Family of FIRST.

Chief Delphi is a very strong believer in the power of communication. That is why we work so hard on this site and get involved as much as possible in the FIRST organization.
Once the new team is formed (Sept) the first task of our web team is to reach out to encourage others to join our voices and communicate.

Stir things up with great comments...great!

Send us a question of major interest and we will put it on the poll for others to vote!

Start a rumor, stir things up, get all of us thinking!

Post a comment we will respond! 'Build it and they will come'.

Mike Martus - Team Coordinator, Chief Delphi

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Posted by Kyle Huang.

Student on team #192, Gunn Robotics Team, from Gunn High School and Sun Microsystems, Nasa/Ames and Xerox PARC.

Posted on 8/3/99 1:46 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: COMMUNICATION posted by Michael Martus on 8/1/99 10:36 PM MST:



: Last year I complained about team numbers and the reasons we need to keep our same numbers each year. It was finally decided at the Forum.

THANK YOU!

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Posted by -Lori.

Other on team Team Player from FIRST.

Posted on 8/3/99 2:22 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: COMMUNICATION posted by Michael Martus on 8/1/99 10:36 PM MST:



Mike,

Thanks for explaining all that to Justin (and everyone else).
FIRST does really listen. In fact, I actually sent several emails out to all the contacts on all the teams
specifically asking for comments, good and bad about this past year's Competition. I, for one, take the
comments very seriously. FIRST is about you, the teams, and what you have to say is VERY important.
We do listen. We might not be able to implement every idea, but we do have them all on record and
re-visit them several times a year to see what improvements/changes we can implement to make the Competition
better for everyone.

I have also invited anyone that cannot make it to the Team Forum to email me their comments and suggestions so
that they can have a 'voice' even though they're not here. I will make sure those issues are brought up at the
Forum. We will be taking minutes at the Forum, and as we did last year, we will post the minutes on the
web.

Communication is extremely important...it's imperative for any successful relationship...and the teams have
a relationship with FIRST. I have worked hard at establishing relationships with team members across the
country and I will continue to do so as long as I am with FIRST. So please, continue to send your comments
to me personally, or on this page. I do read it! Many of us at FIRST do. It's how we keep a finger on the
pulse of the teams.

Thank you Chief Delphi (Brandon) for taking the time to keep this page updated and available for all of us! I certainly
appreciate it!

-Lori-

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Posted by Justin.

Other on team #000, Blue Lightning Alum, from RWU and FIRST-A-holics Anonymous.

Posted on 8/2/99 11:37 AM MST


In Reply to: COMMUNICATION posted by Justin on 8/1/99 1:49 PM MST:



I'm very glad to see people, including FIRST are giving this thought. Since I'm not longer techinically on a team I just want to do what I can
from the outside to insure that FIRST is around for many years to come. Plus I like to think that in the four years that I've been involved with
FIRST I have seen it under go a lot of tranformation and being involved with a team for four years I also like to think that I have some constructive
critisism and observations that might be benefical to all teams, or at least I hope it will. So hopefully, and perhaps ironically, my posting will
become more frequent now that I am an outside observer.

-Justin

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Posted by Fran .

Other on team #166, Team Merrimack, from Merrimack High School and Unitrode/R.S. Machines.

Posted on 8/3/99 3:56 PM MST


In Reply to: Re: COMMUNICATION Revisted posted by Justin on 8/2/99 11:37 AM MST:




I hope you don't stay an outside party...you can always find a team. We have guys call us all the time and we always make pleas to our community for their help(not just financial)
We always tell them we are Team Merrimack and that means the whole town not just the school or our corporate partner.........the more brains that come together the better we will be.
We take in all kinds of strays that can't stay away from the lure of FIRST...so I'm sure you can continue or start one where ever you are.

'MOM' to many


: I'm very glad to see people, including FIRST are giving this thought. Since I'm not longer techinically on a team I just want to do what I can
: from the outside to insure that FIRST is around for many years to come. Plus I like to think that in the four years that I've been involved with
: FIRST I have seen it under go a lot of tranformation and being involved with a team for four years I also like to think that I have some constructive
: critisism and observations that might be benefical to all teams, or at least I hope it will. So hopefully, and perhaps ironically, my posting will
: become more frequent now that I am an outside observer.

: -Justin

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Posted by colleen.   [PICTURE: SAME | NEW | HELP]


Other on team #?, Actually, I'm a FIRST-aholic, from an undecided team for the year 2000 and I'm taking invitations :-).

Posted on 8/9/99 2:52 PM MST


In Reply to: COMMUNICATION posted by Justin on 8/1/99 1:49 PM MST:



i know i'm late in responding, but hey..

i understand where you're coming from- we're the ones who do FIRST every year, feel the pressure, burnout, etc.- they should take our ideas into consideration
I totally agree.

my disagreement with you is- i think they do already listen to us.
they hold a team forum for discussions on issues from the past year
they talk to people at competitions to see what they like/dislike (prime example: changing to the 3 team alliances for the competitions)
they read these pages. i'd think you'd be amazed at how many of the FIRST people know exactly what you're talking about if you say Rumor Mill and how many of them are daily visitors to the page (you don't have to post to read what's here)
online surveys you can fill out on their website.. they want to know what you think

don't get me wrong, i totally agree that they need to know what we think, but i just think that they are doing a whole lot to listen that's all.

my idea: if you have some concrete ideas that you want them to here, organize them out with the pros and cons, maybe get a few opinions of other FIRST-aholics like yourself- from other teams and make it into something submitable (if that's a word) to Lori Buckley at FIRST. I'm sure they'd be more than welcome to read it and take it all into consideration. Cause they do need us to help them out.
if you want to do that and need some help, more ideas to submit, etc.- pop me and email and i'd be more than happy to help you with it- i want this thing to be around for my kids in 2020 and my grandkids too..(but not til like 2040 or something- maybe it'll be on the moon by then)