Pneumatic Tubing Specs

[nnfuller]

Does anybody know the size/pressure specs of the standard FRC pneumatic tubing? Trying to find it on www.freelin-wade.com
Thanks,
Nathan

[BlacksmithWoods]

Yes, they have all the psi ratings on both Andymark.com aand Bimba.com.

I found the standard Pneumatic tubing on AndyMark.

http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2028.htm

If you are leaning more towards pistons and that sort of thing then Bimba is more your way.

-- Hope This Helps,
Brendan

[John Wanninger]

Originally Posted by nnfuller

Does anybody know the size/pressure specs of the standard FRC pneumatic tubing? Trying to find it on www.freelin-wade.com
Thanks,
Nathan

<R66> of the 2011 FRC Manual specified 0.160" I.D and 125 PSI working pressure, 250 PSI burst. The 0.160" ID/0.250" O.D. "Fre-Thane 95A" appears to meet those requirements.

[sanddrag]

Does anyone have a McMaster part number equivalent for the pneumatic tubing we get in the kit of parts? I recall getting some tubing from them once and it was very different.

[nnfuller]

Do you think that using tubing with an inside diameter of .125 instead of .17 would greatly effect performance?

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by nnfuller

Do you think that using tubing with an inside diameter of .125 instead of .17 would greatly effect performance?

Instead of effecting performance, you'd fail inspection (according to the 2011 rules), and thus be unable to perform at all.

It would also positively negatively affect performance, but probably not as much as you'd expect. There's a lot of flow restriction in FRC-legal valves, and that tends to dominate in a lot of systems.

[EricH]

Yes, it would. The speed would be affected (if I'm not mistaken, it would be faster). For another, the OD is what governs fit in fittings, and a smaller ID results in a smaller OD (or a thicker wall for the same OD), which affects how it fits in the fittings. I've seen very nearly identical pieces of tubing not fit the same in a fitting, though... but it wasn't the style normally used in FRC.

And, perhaps more importantly, 2011's <R65> and <R66-D>, read in that order, will tell you that anything other than 0.160" ID tubing functionally equivalent to the KOP tubing (or in the KOP) is prohibited for the 2011 season. This is one of those rules that is change-resistant; I would not expect it to go away for 2012.

[Al Skierkiewicz]

While everyone thus far is correct, please read the 2012 rules and note any changes to this part of the rules. 2012 rules will be the only ones that apply to the 2012 season.

[IndySam]

Last year Freelin-Wade offered a 50% discount for FIRST teams through their online store protubing.com

Here is the link to last years code.

[Gdeaver]

Andy-Mark tubing is .17 ID are they not selling 2011 illegal tubing? There is nylon and polyethylene tubing that have better pressure ratings but, larger ID's so they also would be illegal even though they are tougher.

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by Gdeaver

Andy-Mark tubing is .17 ID are they not selling 2011 illegal tubing?

Maybe they know something we don't?

Actually, this is precisely the reason FIRST needs to specify tolerances in the rulebook.

Does FIRST actually care about this difference, and how are the teams and inspectors supposed to know? The Q&A, with its delayed responses, blackout period and low readership is insufficient compared to the dead-simple alternative of "Ø0.160 ± 0.015 in" "MAX Ø0.175 in". (Note that Freelin-Wade specifies Ø0.160 ± 0.005 in for the ID of the polyurethane tubing in the kit, and Ø0.170 ± 0.004 in for their low-density polyethylene tubing. If FIRST didn't care which one teams used, they would want to specify a large enough tolerance to cover them both—hence ±+ 0.015 in.)

Edit: Wait—why am I giving a ± tolerance? I should have recommended MAX Ø0.175 in. FIRST can't possibly care enough to intend to prevent a team from competing with undersized tubing. (That has happened; an unfortunate consequence of enforcing the rules.)

[Phalanx]

As others have said, the 2011 rules may or may not apply to the 2012 rules.

However, based on my experience over the last 7 years, pneumatic tubing has been pretty much the same. 0.16 ID, 0.25 OD, 125PSI.

From Mcmaster-Carr, these part numbers would be the ones to use:
Opaque Black 9149T21
Opaque Blue 9149T24
Opaque Green 9149T22
Opaque White 9149T23

[kellymc]

They are also giving a discount this year, contact them through their website and they will send you the code and also tell you the tubing specs that they supply in the past kit of parts.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by Gdeaver

Andy-Mark tubing is .17 ID are they not selling 2011 illegal tubing? There is nylon and polyethylene tubing that have better pressure ratings but, larger ID's so they also would be illegal even though they are tougher.

Originally Posted by Tristan Lall

Maybe they know something we don't?

No, AndyMark does not "know something we don't". While they provide a lot of FIRST-legal stuff, and are FIRST's partner for FIRST Choice, not everything on their site has to be FIRST-legal. AndyMark is a business just like any other place you'd buy stuff to put on your robot.

All that said, please note that the Pneumatic Tubing available on FIRST Choice does not have specs on AndyMark's website (and even the picture of the black tubing is different from that previously posted). The link to the product website specifies 14 different specs, one of which includes the 1.6" ID tubing we've had in the past.

So... Everyone should just wait 4 more days before purchasing any pneumatic tubing for the season

[Tristan Lall]

Originally Posted by eagle33199

No, AndyMark does not "know something we don't". While they provide a lot of FIRST-legal stuff, and are FIRST's partner for FIRST Choice, not everything on their site has to be FIRST-legal. AndyMark is a business just like any other place you'd buy stuff to put on your robot.

All that said, please note that the Pneumatic Tubing available on FIRST Choice does not have specs on AndyMark's website (and even the picture of the black tubing is different from that previously posted). The link to the product website specifies 14 different specs, one of which includes the 1.6" ID tubing we've had in the past.

So... Everyone should just wait 4 more days before purchasing any pneumatic tubing for the season

AndyMark frequently knows some things we don't. That's a non-rebuttable statement, given that they handle FIRST Choice and have regularly supplied KOP items (including custom ones for which advance knowledge would be unavoidable).

It wouldn't be a stretch to wonder if they might have accidentally suggested something about the 2012 KOP specs by offering non-KOP, but compatible tubing themselves. Another possibility is, as you mentioned, that they offer it independently of their FIRST offerings. (If it's not FRC-legal, the lack of a disclaimer to that effect will be less than ideal after the 2012 kickoff, given that FRC is their principal market.) In this case, you're correct that they list what appears to be the conventional Freelin-Wade KOP tubing under the FIRST Choice 2012 catalogue. (And of course none of this can easily be confirmed or dismissed until the manual is released. I'm prepared to wait.)