<G28>

[efoote868]

Reading through the rules, this one is a real head scratcher.
To make sure I've got the correct (pre-update) interpretation of this...

All intent aside, a referee witnesses:
A redbot overpowers a bluebot and shoves it into the red key (redbot now contacting the bluebot while in the red key).

What's the call?

The way I interpret it is that the red alliance is awarded 3 points per <G28/G44 exception>.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by efoote868

The way I interpret it is that the red alliance is awarded 3 points per <G28/G44 exception>.

I think so, too. You need to get out of the way -- stat -- if you want to avoid a penalty. (Note that this makes the area between the bridge and the key particularly hazardous for a robot of the other alliance!)

[LafondaOnFire]

Originally Posted by pfreivald

I think so, too. You need to get out of the way -- stat -- if you want to avoid a penalty. (Note that this makes the area between the bridge and the key particularly hazardous for a robot of the other alliance!)

Not exactly. G45 saves the victimbot from this situation:

[G45]
Strategies exploiting Rule [G44] are not in the spirit of the FRC and are not allowed.
Violation: Technical-Foul and Red Card

So this covers if you're purposely pushing the opposing robot into the alley/bridge so they may occur a penalty. It seems to me like yes, the victimbot will occur a Foul, but the bullybot will get a Technical-Foul and a Red Card for purposely attempting to rack up points by manipulating penalties. Who's the real winner here?

That being said, I bet that greedy robots stealing basketballs from the opposing team's alley will have a massive target on their back from the opposing alliance. That is a justifiable Foul - they weren't forced to enter the lane here.

[Ross3098]

Originally Posted by efoote868

Reading through the rules, this one is a real head scratcher.
To make sure I've got the correct (pre-update) interpretation of this...

All intent aside, a referee witnesses:
A redbot overpowers a bluebot and shoves it into the red key (redbot now contacting the bluebot while in the red key).

What's the call?

The way I interpret it is that the red alliance is awarded 3 points per <G28/G44 exception>.

Once again another way the GDC is designing a game that heavily discourages defense. Simply put, dont want a foul? Stay away from those zones.

[Jon Stratis]

Originally Posted by rocknthehawk

So if a red robot was parked in blue alliances alley, they would first incur a foul when touched by a blue robot, but then blue could be issued a technical foul and/or red card if continuing to hit the parked red robot? Where is the line between getting a robot out of your way, and exploiting [g44]?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding.

It really comes down to intent - If you hit them while playing the game as it's intended to be played (in you example, if you were trying to get to your inbounder to fetch a ball, or get from your inbounder to your ramp to go score a ball), they'll be penalized. If, however, you go bolting across the arena just to hit them with no intent to actually play the game (your only intention was for a penalty), it won't earn you any points. A lot of it is discretion on the ref's part, but trust me, it's usually pretty obvious.

I'm honestly letting go of it for now. If it isn't fixed within the first 2, maybe 3 updates, then I'll start looking into it more.

[Mr B]

Ha ha. That is too funny. Does this mean that two robots could sit there and rack up a huge number of fouls and set a scoring record?

[hdastwb]

See, last year an opposing robot smashed into one end of our robot, disabling one of the gearboxes and moving our robot into the alley. Our driver's attempts to get our robot out of the alley were unsuccessful and only caused the robot to move back and forth over the boundary line, which he couldn't even see because the alliance wall was in the way. The result:
Our bot- multiple penalties and a red card for going over the boundary line
The aggressor- nothing; high speed collisions are just part of the game

After that experience, I am convinced that there's someone that will disable someone else's bot in a restricted area and then proceed to force them to incur G28's and get away with it because of the referee's interpretation of G44 and G45. If your referee's having a bad day and particularly doesn't like your robot, there is no way that you can argue against him and avoid getting penalized for the actions of the other team.

[ratdude747]

Originally Posted by hdastwb

See, last year an opposing robot smashed into one end of our robot, disabling one of the gearboxes and moving our robot into the alley. Our driver's attempts to get our robot out of the alley were unsuccessful and only caused the robot to move back and forth over the boundary line, which he couldn't even see because the alliance wall was in the way. The result:
Our bot- multiple penalties and a red card for going over the boundary line
The aggressor- nothing; high speed collisions are just part of the game

After that experience, I am convinced that there's someone that will disable someone else's bot in a restricted area and then proceed to force them to incur G28's and get away with it because of the referee's interpretation of G44 and G45. If your referee's having a bad day and particularly doesn't like your robot, there is no way that you can argue against him and avoid getting penalized for the actions of the other team.

ummm... E-stop Button?

[DonRotolo]

Originally Posted by ratdude747

ummm... E-stop Button?

It wasn't an unsafe condition.

From the 2011 rules:

<G29> If a ROBOT becomes unsafe (e.g. the ROBOT begins to smoke, the battery falls out, etc.) it may be disabled by pressing the E-Stop button. This will cause the TEAM'S ROBOT to be disabled for the remainder of the MATCH. The E-Stop buttons are intended for remote shut down during a MATCH in the event of safety hazards and will not otherwise affect MATCH score or duration. Any TEAM member may press the E-Stop button. Violation: Inappropriate use of the E-Stop button (i.e. not for safety reasons) will result in a RED CARD.

[chi-town-biker]

The key and the alley are only 59 inches apart. In theory, a red robot in contact with the red key could touch a blue robot in contact with the blue alley. How is that scored?

[Grim Tuesday]

Originally Posted by chi-town-biker

The key and the alley are only 59 inches apart. In theory, a red robot in contact with the red key could touch a blue robot in contact with the blue alley. How is that scored?

It would seem that both robots receive fouls, so no net change.

[Chris is me]

The intent of the rule is crystal clear to me. Don't play defense on the robots. Play defense on the balls.

[Brandon Zalinsky]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

The intent of the rule is crystal clear to me. Don't play defense on the robots. Play defense on the balls.

Unfortunately, it's not the intent of the rule that people are going to follow. You know just a well as anyone else that G28 will be abused beyond belief, simply because it's easier than scoring.

Something has to change here.

[pfreivald]

Originally Posted by Flak-Bait

Something has to change here.

The perspective of players?

Don't inflict penalties for their own sake, and you won't get a red card. Otherwise, stay away from opponents in/near their key, alley, and bridge!