<G28>

[Bochek]

<G38> Robots may not touch an opponent Robot in contact with its Key, Alley, or Bridge.
Violation: Foul; Technical-Foul for purposeful, consequential contact.

This rule applied at all times, no matter who initiates the contact, see [G44].


<G44> Generally, a rule violation by an Alliance that was directly caused by actions of the opposing Alliance will not be penalized. Rule [G28] is an exception to this rule.


_______________________

You can intentionally cause fouls.

I'm Shocked.

[Tetraman]

*cough cough*

[G45] Strategies exploiting rule [G44] are not in the spirit of FIRST and not allowed.
Violation: Technical-foul and Red Card

[seg9585]

Based on this rule, it looks like you can receive a foul on your own side of the court if you are close enough to the opposing team's alley, and the opposing team comes to your side of the court and initiates contact with your bot while still partially in contact with its own alley.
Is this interpretation correct?

If this is the case, it seems possible to me that a robot can be in contact with its own key while at the same time make contact with an opposing robot in its own alley. (There's only 59" separation between the alley and key at the minimum).
In this situation, who is assigned a penalty?? Both teams??

[GaryVoshol]

Originally Posted by seg9585

If this is the case, it seems possible to me that a robot can be in contact with its own key while at the same time make contact with an opposing robot in its own alley. (There's only 59" separation between the alley and key at the minimum).
In this situation, who is assigned a penalty?? Both teams??

Oooo, that's a good one for the GDC when Q&A opens!

[Tetraman]

Originally Posted by seg9585

Based on this rule, it looks like you can receive a foul on your own side of the court if you are close enough to the opposing team's alley, and the opposing team comes to your side of the court and initiates contact with your bot while still partially in contact with its own alley.
Is this interpretation correct?

If this is the case, it seems possible to me that a robot can be in contact with its own key while at the same time make contact with an opposing robot in its own alley. (There's only 59" separation between the alley and key at the minimum).
In this situation, who is assigned a penalty?? Both teams??

It would be based on who hit who. If Red Alliance on their Key hits Blue Alliance in their Alley, Red alliance is called for the foul. If Blue Alliance in their Alley hits Red Alliance in their Key, Blue alliance is called for the foul. It's whomever does the move first. At least that's my interpretation and this is a good question to pose to the GDC.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Tetraman

It would be based on who hit who. If Red Alliance on their Key hits Blue Alliance in their Alley, Red alliance is called for the foul. If Blue Alliance in their Alley hits Red Alliance in their Key, Blue alliance is called for the foul. It's whomever does the move first. At least that's my interpretation and this is a good question to pose to the GDC.

I don't believe this is the case. I believe that BOTH teams will get penalized, due to <G44>

<G44> Generally, a rule violation by an Alliance that was directly caused by actions of the opposing Alliance will not be penalized. Rule [G28] is an exception to this rule.

[Tetraman]

Yea, good call Daniel. I retract my comments and state again it's a good question for the GDC.

[seg9585]

I will definitely ask this, but one thing I did notice -- the penalty is a foul. A foul simply awards 3 points to the opposing team.
If both teams are penalized, each alliance receives 3 more points, so effectively there's no point advantage for either alliance (they cancel each other out).

[SenorZ]

I expect Team Update #1 to address some ambiguities like this.

[Ninja_Bait]

In the meantime, many teams are thinking of ways to build kitbots and just repeatedly touch opposing robots in their key and alley. Three points a touch is way easier to get than three points a hoop!

[MrBasse]

Keep an eye out for <G45> though...

[G44] Generally, a rule violation by an Alliance that was directly caused by actions of the opposing Alliance will not be penalized. Rule [G28] is an exception to this rule.
[G45] Strategies exploiting Rule [G44] are not in the spirit of the FRC and are not allowed. Violation: Technical-Foul and Red Card

So if they are looking at ways to gain points by making contact and forcing fouls, the season is going to be a depressing one for them.

[Chickenonastick]

Originally Posted by MrBasse

Keep an eye out for <G45> though...

[G44] Generally, a rule violation by an Alliance that was directly caused by actions of the opposing Alliance will not be penalized. Rule [G28] is an exception to this rule.
[G45] Strategies exploiting Rule [G44] are not in the spirit of the FRC and are not allowed. Violation: Technical-Foul and Red Card

So if they are looking at ways to gain points by making contact and forcing fouls, the season is going to be a depressing one for them.

But since G44 explicitly states that it does not apply to Rule G28, does that mean that Rule G45 has no authority over G28?

Therefore, if an opposing robot somehow has a malfunction in one of the zones indicated by G28, could you not "come in contact" with them multiple times, resulting in 3 points per contact?

[EricH]

Originally Posted by Chickenonastick

But since G44 explicitly states that it does not apply to Rule G28, does that mean that Rule G45 has no authority over G28?

Therefore, if an opposing robot somehow has a malfunction in one of the zones indicated by G28, could you not "come in contact" with them multiple times, resulting in 3 points per contact?

Rule G45 says that if you exploit G44, it's a T-foul and Red Card. Rule G28 states that a robot may not touch its opponent in contact with the key, alley, or bridge--no matter who initiates (and says that it supersedes G44 on that).

The question to ask Q&A is this: "Because G28 opens the door for a team to repeatedly contact an opponent who happens to get stuck/pushed into/otherwise jammed in or next to a Key, Alley, or Bridge, racking up points just by contacting the team, would G45 be brought into play against a team who tried to use this to their advantage? In short, does G45 apply against G28 as well as G44?"

[Kevin Sevcik]

I'm confused by the confusion. <G44> contains both the rule that a team can't force a foul AND the exception to that rule. <G45> says you can't exploit <G44> as a strategy. It seems straightforward to me then that you can't exploit <G44>, which includes the exception for <G28>. So you can't repeatedly bump an opponent in your alley for the express purpose of racking up fouls.

[EricH]

The G28 blue box says "regardless of" G44 is when/how G28 applies, and no matter who initiates the contact.

In other words, if I'm in contact with the alley (or key), you're my opponent passing by, and I hit you, I get 3 points, per hit. That is G28's take on it. G44 would normally prevent this; however, G28 is specifically excluded from G44 consideration.

G45 says that strategies exploiting G44 are illegal. So if I'm exploiting G28, which is its own rule, by using the fact that G44 does not apply to G28, then am I exploiting G44 or G28?

If I'm exploiting G28, I can score points by maintaining contact with a protected zone and hitting any opponent passing by, and I get 3 points per hit. If I'm exploiting G44, then after about the second or third hit, my opponents get 9 points and I get a red card. Big difference there, don't you think?