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Unread 14-03-2016, 11:40
patar8746's Avatar
patar8746 patar8746 is offline
FRC+FLL Alum/Mentor/Brother/Geek
AKA: Patrick Naughton
FRC #3061 (Huskie Robotics)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Rookie Year: 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 37
patar8746 is on a distinguished road
Offseason Video Review Pilot-Volunteers?

I know things on the last thread about video review got heated very quickly, and debating the merits vs drawbacks of the system as of right now isn't going to help anyone. However, one really important thing that came up was a number of amazing offseason event coordinators volunteering to pilot video review systems at their events. Doing an in-depth trial of such a system is the only way I can think of to end the debate and/or prompt FIRST to implement official review.

Please read as much of this as you can get through http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...hreadid=145650

Then post here if:
  • You know of or happen to be an offseason event coordinator (shoutouts to JohnFogarty, MrTechCenter, and Ryan Dognaux so far) that would be interested in trying this out (feel free to ask for volunteers)
  • You can assist above event coordinators in implementing such a system
  • You have ideas on rule variations that could be tried at these events and reasons why they might work better

Please do NOT post for:
  • Only saying you don't like a proposed rule idea. It's ultimately up to event coordinators what they want to try, though I'd suggest you guys don't use the same rulesets so we can see what works better. If you have an improvement on a proposed variation go for it.
  • Continuing the debate about video review without having tested it. That's what the other thread was for and nothing really got accomplished. However if you HAVE tried it out and seen problems please share them.

From the previously mentioned thread, Here is a ruleset proposed by user Donut, who has experience both as a robot driver and as a Referee:
  • Each Alliance is allowed one challenge/review in the playoffs. Unlimited challenges will result in reviewing every somewhat close match since no one wants their event/season to end. If the system works it could be expanded to each team having one challenge for all qualification matches also but not more to limit review quantities.
  • Head Ref leads the review process and delivers the final call, with other refs who were involved in that call assisting if necessary. The rest of the refs keep the next match getting setup correctly so that minimal time is added to normal field reset. Adding a review process should not require an increase in referee headcount given the difficulty in finding referee volunteers already.
  • Only match scoring errors (and penalties that lead to an automatic score) can be reviewed. This year that would mean defense crossings, challenges, scales, autonomous points, G13, G28, and boulders (though I am not sure if allowing review of an automatically scored element is reasonable to review, counting balls/disks scored in a match from a video is time consuming and more prone to error). Fouls are not reviewable as it is not easy to determine what fouls were assessed from a video and many involve a judgement call by a referee who has a better view than a camera or driver in their station will.
  • The score or lack of being reviewed must be significant enough to affect the outcome of the match (or an RP being awarded for games like this year). Reviewing whether a crossing was awarded in autonomous or teleop in a 40 point blowout is a waste of time and the implications on ranking tiebreakers are not significant enough to justify the resources for that.
  • Video evidence must be indisputable to change a call. The point is to receive credit for an obviously missed score, not debate further a close call that a referee already used their best judgement on (such as barely breaking contact with the Outer Works and Sally Port door).

Variations I've seen to this point include allowing foul reviews, having an extra volunteer to watch reviews at team request and only calling the head Ref over if there's actually a valid dispute, allowing additional reviews so long as teams are proven correct on each of their challenges, and allowing/disallowing fan/media rep videos. There's plenty of ways to do it, and the best way to see what works best is to try them all out. Let's make it loud and show what the community can do when we care about an issue.
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Huskie Robotics 3061: Drivetrain Engineering Lead ('14-'15), Pit Captain ('15)
Northern Lights Regional Champs ('13), Midwest Regional GP Award ('12, '14-'15) Semifinalists ('12) Quarterfinalists ('13, '14), Lake Superior Regional Quarterfinalists ('14)
2Train Robotics 395: College Student Mentor ('16-now)
NYC Regional Quarterfinalists ('16)

The opinions I express are mine alone and do not in any way represent the views of any teams or schools I am part of.
"Team 3061 needs a crowbar..." "Failure is always an option..." "drill bits are NOT endmills"
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