FIRST - Reason for existance

[Steve W]

I started this thread to extend the debate found in the Reputation points thread. The question being debated is whether FIRST's mission is that of US or worldwide base. Originally FIRST was based on improving things in the US. What are your thoughts now that so many teams are from outside of the US and growning in numbers?

[Ryan M.]

Originally Posted by Steve W

I started this thread to extend the debate found in the Reputation points thread. The question being debated is whether FIRST's mission is that of US or worldwide base. Originally FIRST was based on improving things in the US. What are your thoughts now that so many teams are from outside of the US and growning in numbers?

That's a good thing. FIRST might have been started in the US, but it has spread because people have seen what it is all about and what it can do.

[Joshua May]

Originally Posted by Steve W

I started this thread to extend the debate found in the Reputation points thread. The question being debated is whether FIRST's mission is that of US or worldwide base. Originally FIRST was based on improving things in the US. What are your thoughts now that so many teams are from outside of the US and growning in numbers?

I don't think anyone can really argue that it isn't a worldwide venture. Sure, it started out in the US, because getting something like this to work in the US was a big enough job. Now we have surpassed that and the bar has been raised to an international effort, I've even heard talk of a possible Brazilian Regional, which would certainly spur some huge interest in FIRST. Really, you can't be an international organization and only help the US.

[Arefin Bari]

FIRST is the best thing ever happened in my life... and i know that a lot of you out there would agree with me that it was your best thing in life... it did start out in US... but now its worldwide... soon we will be seeing teams from across the world... i appreciate and thank EVERY single personality whos working each day and being dedicated to FIRST and keep it running...

[Bharat Nain]

Reason of Existance of FIRST: To inspire students to do something in the field of Science of Technology

It's simple, it does not matter, if FIRST was meant to just inspire kids in US or all around the world, just because it has touched lives all around the world.

Is that explanation good enough?

[MikeDubreuil]

FIRST inspiring students to pursue careers in technology was the short term goal. The thought process was that by getting more kids into technology the United States would keep it's dominant position in technology. Which is why all of Dean's current speeches are about the problems with outsoursing technology.

Everyone keeps saying rasing the bar is expanding internationally. That has never been a goal of FIRST. Dean Kamen constanly refers to the statistics for the United States. I don't remember exactly, but around 5% of high schools in the US have FIRST. Rasing the bar to him would mean getting 10% involvement.

Don't take what I say out of context. I would agree that the goal for FIRST is to inspire kids to pursue careers in technology. This applies locally to teams around the world. However, the ENTIRE goal was for the kids to pursue technology for the benifet of the US.

Not one person can explain to me why they believe FIRST's goal is to benifet the world... yet, Dean Kamen's speaches explain how techs jobs leaving the United States are a bad thing. Until you explain this, most of your attempts to explain FIRST going internation seem moot.

[Collin Fultz]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

Dean Kamen's speaches explain how techs jobs leaving the United States are a bad thing.

I saw/heard/felt a totally different speech in Atlanta. To me, Dean was saying that outsourcing is ok because America will find something else to do and move on. To me, he said that "outsourcing" brought us together with the rest of the world...made us one planet instead of many different nations. To me, it's time that we think of ourselves as one planet. Some nations already do that...and I commend them. Is America there yet? Kind of...not really. Am I? No...but I'm willing to work on it.

Also, I thought Dean's speech had a lot to do with 254's winning the Chairman's. When I heard Dean's speech, I turned to Jason Kixmiller (sitting next to me. We were also Chairman's Contenders and felt like we had a good shot at winning.) and said, "Well...any picks on who won the Chairman's Award." and all he could respond was, "Yah...no kidding."

By those two occurences: 1.)Dean saying America will move on. 2.)Cheesy Poofs winning the Chairman's. I am led to believe that to Dean, outsourcing is ok. It won't kill America...simply make it do something different...something better...something smarter.

I also agree with M.

Originally Posted by M. Krass

Is it only obvious to me that FIRST and Dean Kamen are not inextricably attached at the hip?

I've only been in FIRST three years. In that time...I've seen Dean move more away from being tied to the hip of FIRST. To me, for a lot of people who have been in FIRST a while, DEAN=FIRST. In today's FIRST, however, FIRST>DEAN. That is in no way meant to slam Dean...but he, Woody, and one other guy who I don't know the name of (sorry) created an organization that grew like a wildfire. It's bigger than one person...to Dean Kamen I say, "Congratulations." But Dean is not FIRST.

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by Collin Fultz

I saw/heard/felt a totally different speech in Atlanta. To me, Dean was saying that outsourcing is ok because America will find something else to do and move on. To me, he said that "outsourcing" brought us together with the rest of the world...made us one planet instead of many different nations. To me, it's time that we think of ourselves as one planet. Some nations already do that...and I commend them. Is America there yet? Kind of...not really. Am I? No...but I'm willing to work on it.

There are other threads that talk about this; however, Kamen being pro-America is paramount to my stance on the issue.

I wasn't personally at the championship. However from the CD discussion, I can tell Dean gave a similar speech at my school about a month after championship.

In his speech at my school's centenial aniversary he talked about how we might be moving to an era where engineering itself is being outsourced. He doesn't mind outsourcing technology once it becomes a commodity, but he is steadfast in not wanting the US to lose it's position as the number one technology innovator in the world.

Perhaps I'm twisting his words, but I don't think so. It seemed a lot of folks on CD felt that his championship speech ignored the international teams.

[Jessica Boucher]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

There are other threads that talk about this

Yeah, we've got pages of talk about outsourcing over here.

[Collin Fultz]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

but he is steadfast in not wanting the US to lose it's position as the number one technology innovator in the world.

This is true. Dean Kamen does not...in my best estimation...want America to lose its "innovationness". Neither do I. That is what FIRST is all about...I think. Innovation. Countless awards use the word "Innovation". This year the IRI has attempted to use this innovation to inspire an award. The Rolls-Royce President's Award. It focuses on Innovation, Reliability, and Integrity (IRI...clever huh? which by the way...everyone going to IRI should read the awards section of the packet and get your info in quickly so you can be eligable for some of the awards). Anyways. In my opinion:
1.)Dean doesn't want to lose Inovation in America.
2.)Dean is Pro-America
3.)Dean is not FIRST
4.)FIRST is Pro-Inspiration...no matter where it happens
5.)FIRST is Pro-Earth
6.)The "I" in FIRST is most important.
7.)David Kelly is *DUE TO A REQUEST BY BRANDON MARTUS* [edit]definately[/edit] a nerd...but a great mentor and friend.
8.)Andy Baker should be on Survivor
9.)Everyone should try to come to the IRI July 9-10

Hope that clears things up.

[Justin]

Hi,

I'd like to share a few of my thoughts about the internationalization of FIRST and expansion in general. I've been around since 96 and it is safe to say FIRST has grown just a little. Even in 1998 as a few more regionals were added there was concern that things were getting to big and FIRST was loosing the tight-knit feel that many people liked so much. That has always been a big concern with FIRST are we growing so fast that things have become diluted? Is the message lost? Dean has articulated this concern in recent years. He has called on the veteran teams to help the rookies understand what we really mean by this concept of gracious professionalism.

The problem I have is that Dean frequently seems to say one thing and then completely contradict it in the next sentence. For example he will say that we're growing so fast that we need to pause and remember what we're up to and then in the next breath he will implore us all to do our homework so that we can grow faster. I would like to see a little more focus on growing in a constructive way that remains true to the mission of FIRST rather than growth for growth's sake. Another example of this is that Dean will say things like there are 22,000 high schools in the United States and they all need teams. Then we will hear things about how the NYC regional is the "Ellis island of FIRST." What happened to the U.S. teams?

It's interesting I've always had the perception that much of the push to grow FIRST has been reaching some kind of critical mass that only Dean knows. Some have suggested for years that it is about TV but if we couldn't make it on TV during the Battle Bots era...will be ever? Is surrendering control to the corporate big wigs who run TV empires a good thing? I wish Dean would spell out the goal/mission/vision whatever in a way that gives teams actionable goals to work towards.

Thanks,

Justin

[Bridgette]

Another thing I see in these posts is the tendency to lower the respect/admiration for the "rich and famous" in order to increase respect for science/technology/etc. If FIRST is trying to decrease respect of other people in order to meet its ends, then it is using the same quote-unquote "unethical" practices that some on this thread seem to abhor.

I don’t think that FIRST is trying to decrease respect for the rich and famous as much as increase respect for others. FIRST offers great opportunities to thousands of students. These students are able to not only explore the possibilities of science and technology, but also the skills that they possess but just never realized they had. By encouraging talents that popular culture seems to shun, FIRST is already changing the lives of thousands of people.I think FIRST could someday have the ability to cause a change in the way society views science and technology.

If this sea change in society ever happens, then the way that entertainers are treated is going to change as well. While music and TV are very important parts of culture, I wish that the people who are truly changing the world received as much recognition as those with musical and acting talent.

Originally Posted by Bridgette

I don’t think that FIRST is trying to decrease respect for the rich and famous as much as increase respect for others. FIRST offers great opportunities to thousands of students. These students are able to not only explore the possibilities of science and technology, but also the skills that they possess but just never realized they had. By encouraging talents that popular culture seems to shun, FIRST is already changing the lives of thousands of people.I think FIRST could someday have the ability to cause a change in the way society views science and technology.

If this sea change in society ever happens, then the way that entertainers are treated is going to change as well. While music and TV are very important parts of culture, I wish that the people who are truly changing the world received as much recognition as those with musical and acting talent.

Maybe I worded my original post incorrectly. I don't think FIRST is trying to decrease respect for popular culture icons. I said that some people think that.

I agree - when FIRST gets engineers/scientists/etc. enough respect as other icons - it will have succeeded in one part of its goal.

Now, on to mtrawls comments:

Originally Posted by mtrawls

How can you measure how much someone deserves a job? Or who is more worthy? Who gives you the moral superiority to say without a doubt that "those people deserve" the job "far more" than the greedy American who wants to "wear Nike shoes" and own a "Ford Excursion"?

For example, do certain FIRST sponsors' "unsavory" (I put it in quotes b/c morality is not univeral) behavior mean they are less fit to be FIRST sponsors? Does Microsoft's antitrust suits mean they are worse sponsors? Not at all.

I agree completely with mtrawls. But the greatness of capitalism is a discussion for another thread...

[Steve W]

I guess that I should post seeing that I started the thread. I am proud to be Canadian. I promote Canada. I trash talk Americans at competitions in good humor. I promote a healthy Canadian/American rivalry. But what does Dean think? What does Dave Lavery think? What does Woodie think? What about Paul Copioli (had to pick on someone Paul)? Really who cares.

Everyone of us has a reason for being here. It really doesn't matter if Canadian or American. What does matter is the fact that we are here learning together. Each and every one of us is human. We all have likes and dislikes. The thing that has drawn us all together is FIRST. What a great organization. Yeah, I hear Dean promoting the US. Sometimes I wonder why he forgets us non US residents. You know why he forgets us? I don't, but I have some ideas. I believe that Dean is proud to be an American. I believe that he speaks from his heart and sometimes forgets to mention others. I don't condemn him for this but I find it refreshing to see the passion that he shows to us. So many people are politically correct but are not sincere. I believe that that is not the case with Dean. I watched him on Curie as he spoke to the students and watched the game. His eyes told it all. Wide eyed and sincere as he watched competition and spoke to individuals.

Remember if you hear me at competitions. I do show my Canadian pride sometimes. I give a bit more to Canadian teams. I spend a little extra time in the pits with Canadian teams. Does that mean that I don't think that Americans are important? No, I just get a bit carried away, just as Dean does.

My feelings are that FIRST is a healthy organization that is pushing down boundries. I have felt nothing but goodwill no matter which regional or championship that I have been to. I believe that FIRST's main goal is what it states in it's name. No hidden agenda, just plain Inspiration and Recognition. These are items that have no political, national or social boundries. Boy I sure am glad that I was introduced to FIRST.

BTW in an earlier post it was mentioned that all of FIRST executive were US citizens. Paul Shay is Canadian I believe.

[soezgg]

Originally Posted by Steve W

I guess that I should post seeing that I started the thread. I am proud to be Canadian. I promote Canada. I trash talk Americans at competitions in good humor. I promote a healthy Canadian/American rivalry. But what does Dean think? What does Dave Lavery think? What does Woodie think? What about Paul Copioli (had to pick on someone Paul)? Really who cares.

yeah, our team does nothing but rag on canadians and their tiny worthless money, the frenchness, the stereotypes and just over all canadianism.
however, we dont dislike them enough to avoid the Canadian Regional, which we have been a part of since the beginning.

by creating the Canadian Regional, FIRST is both promoting rivalry in competiton and partnerships in industry, science and tech.
personally, i am $@#$@#$@#$@# glad that 639...cough cough....639 luckily managed to whoop some canadian $@#$@#$@# this year and recover our lost pride on the missisauga battleground from previous years.

Rivalry and competition drive performance. Everyone knows it. That is why FIRST is a COMPETITION. Yes I said it. FIRST is a competition first and foremost.

good game.