**FIRST EMAIL**/Invitation to Beta test the New Control System

[Mark McLeod]

Greetings Teams:

With the launch of our new FRC Control System just around the corner, we are seeking a limited number of teams interested in beta testing the new control system.

FIRST BETA TEST PROGRAM GOALS


* Give as many teams as possible early hands-on exposure to the 2009 control system;
* Use beta team feedback to refine/develop supporting documentation and training materials;
* Test the features and functions of the new control system to uncover problems and provide solution suggestions;
* Develop a supporting network/knowledge database to ease the transition to the new system;
* Allow teams to become “Control System Experts” and serve as area leaders to mentor other teams;
* Share information to minimize strategic advantages; and
* Understand the difficulties and issues that teams may encounter with the new control system.

In order to be eligible for the FIRST beta testing program, FRC teams must exhibit attributes consistent with a Chairman’s Award winning team and have participated in FIRST programs for at least three recent years. Teams will be selected based on their location and their FIRST experiences. The specific beta testing criteria for the FRC teams is outlined below:

TEAM SELECTION CRITERIA


* COMMUNITY

o Teams who have consistently demonstrated involvement within their FIRST community will best fit this beta program. A team’s communication network should be in place and will be utilized in this project.


* VISION

o Teams who have proven they ‘get’ the bigger picture and vision of FIRST and who want to work together for the betterment of the FRC program are preferred.


* GEOGRAPHICAL AREAS

o Team location is key to the beta test. FIRST will distribute the control systems geographically in an effort to gather more diverse feedback and also to create “Control System Experts” in as many locations as possible for future mentoring.

REQUIRED BETA TEST TASKS
Beta test teams must perform the following tasks:


* Submit and execute a test schedule and plan;
* Transplant the new control system into an existing FRC competition robot with the understanding that they will not take this opportunity to test new mechanisms;
* Designate one lead student and one technical mentor to serve as the communicators of test results;
* Post their findings on the FIRST Forums on a bi-weekly basis;
* Be available to answer questions from teams in their region, and from the broader FRC community;
* Release every piece of code developed;
* Open their facility to regional teams to observe or assist in the test program;
* Agree to serve as “Control Systems Experts” and provide support to teams in their surrounding areas for the 2009 season;
* Hold at least one Saturday controls training seminar open to all neighboring teams prior to the 2009 kickoff. This schedule is to be posted on the FIRST Forums; and
* Agree to return this 2009 Control System to FIRST upon request.


FIRST is asking interested, eligible FRC teams to submit a written proposal via this application form <http://www.usfirst.org/forms.aspx?ekfrm=9446> by August 15th, 2008 on why they would be a good candidate, how they intend to collaborate and work with their neighboring teams, and what they intend to do if they receive the new control system.

Teams are asked to identify the specific robotic features that will be integrated as part of the team's beta testing efforts. By being specific, teams will increase their chances for being selected. For example, teams might consider including one or more of the following robotic features in their proposed development plan:


* Image-based control to track the position of a target such as the 2006 Aim High cold cathode light;
* Closed loop PI control of a rotating robotic arm using a potentiometer;
* Control of the end of travel of a mechanical component through the use of limit switches, light sensors, and/or potentiometers;
* Navigation using wheel encoders and a gyro;
* Implementation of a blown circuit breaker detection algorithm;
* Implementation of a transmission shifting algorithm; and/or
* Implementation of an autonomous routine.


Applications for beta test teams will be reviewed by a panel of Championship Woodie Flowers Award Winners.

Selected teams will be notified by September 1st, 2008 and control systems will be shipped starting September 15th, 2008 after FIRST receives the test schedule and plan from the beta tester. Please direct questions regarding submissions to FRCbetatest@usfirst.org.

While FIRST would like to provide every team with a control system for evaluation in the beta test, FIRST must limit the scope of this test program due to the number of control systems available at this early date.

Our beta test team selection criteria, out of necessity, narrows the list of potential participants but is not intended to favor or disfavor any specific teams. One goal of the beta test program is to strengthen local communication and support networks, so FIRST will select the teams that will do the best job of disseminating the knowledge accumulated through testing.

As noted above, the intent of this program is to test and improve the 2009 FRC Control System, give as many teams as possible early hands-on exposure, and reduce the learning curve for teams. This approach to beta testing is not perfect, but it brings us closer to the goal of creating the best control system possible for the 2009 season and beyond. Thank you all for your support in helping successfully launch FIRST’s new control system!

Go Teams!

[Leav]

Hi guys,
My team is very interested in helping out, so I tried to register...

but all I get is a blank page... could this be due to my ubuntu+firefox combination?

anyone else getting a blank page at:
http://www.usfirst.org/forms.aspx?ekfrm=9446

I'm getting the same blank page when I randomly enter numbers instead of 9446 so i'm guessing it's either a typo or the page isn't up yet...

either way... anyone get any further with this than a blank page?

Thanks!

-Leav

p.s.
just emailed them about it...

[R.C.]

Dude, I'm getting a blank page also???

[Brandon Holley]

ditto on the blank page

[Mark McLeod]

That's the link and it was up and working when the email originally arrived.
Maybe 1500 applications brought it down...

[basicxman]

wow thanks FIRST for that FTC beta application
wish i had an FRC team to test this with

[Leav]

so what, we don't get to submit an application? the kids gave it a good hard day's work....

-Leav

[Mark McLeod]

I'm sure the FIRST web crew will fix it after they get back from their weekend off.

[Leav]

oops! forgot Sunday isn't a workday in the states sorry!

[Micah Siegel]

Some of you maybe have seen the email about the beta test program for the 2009 FRC control system. If not, you can find the text here. In summary, FIRST is looking for a few good teams to start using the control system; incorporating such maneuvers as image-based control, navigation using wheel encoders and a gyro, and implementation of a transmission shifting algorithm.
But, in my mind the most important part of this program is the following: The teams that participate will be given a challenge, which is to teach and demonstrate the control system to EVERY other team that wants to learn. Here’s where many of you come in. You might not be applying to the beta test, but you should not let the opportunity go by without getting everything you can out of it. This means:

1. Create and maintain relationships with one or more of the beta test teams once they are announced.
2. Follow the progress of this team, read their bi-weekly posts on the FIRST forum, ask lots of questions, look at the code they publish.
3. Go visit the team at their school, attend their seminar, watch the control system in action, get the look and feel of it.
4. Take detailed notes about how you can better incorporate the new system into your design for the 2009 season.
5. Come January, call the team again, ask them more questions, keep in touch, use their support, they are there to help you.
By the way, you can ask questions about things other than the control system!!!

I see this program as a valuable way to establish contacts between teams, and as a way for rookie teams and struggling teams to develop a relationship with an experienced team that can guide them along and mentor them. In case you haven’t realized yet, the word “participate” in the title of my post does not necessarily mean apply for the test (though I would encourage all teams to discuss and consider it), but it means to get everything you possibly can out of it. Take advantage of this opportunity!

Sincerely,
Micah

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Micah Siegel

I see this program as a valuable way to establish contacts between teams, and as a way for rookie teams and struggling teams to develop a relationship with an experienced team that can guide them along and mentor them. In case you haven’t realized yet, the word “participate” in the title of my post does not necessarily mean apply for the test (though I would encourage all teams to discuss and consider it), but it means to get everything you possibly can out of it. Take advantage of this opportunity!

Sincerely,
Micah

Here I disagree with you.

There is far more to be learned by hands on training, than by asking questions. FIRST is creating an unbalanced playing field be allowing those that are already established (3+ years in FIRST, "chairmans award winning" attributes) to get direct hands on experiance while the rest of the teams get to watch blogs.

I believe that, with this system, those that need the experiance the most (rookies) will be given the least amount of help.

Lets face it, the veteran teams that they want are the teams with already established software teams and this will give them a head start as to the nuances of the controller.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why they are asking for beta testers. I just wish that they wouldn't favor the teams that already have enough advantages.

As usual, this is JMHO.

[Cory]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Here I disagree with you.

There is far more to be learned by hands on training, than by asking questions. FIRST is creating an unbalanced playing field be allowing those that are already established (3+ years in FIRST, "chairmans award winning" attributes) to get direct hands on experiance while the rest of the teams get to watch blogs.

I believe that, with this system, those that need the experiance the most (rookies) will be given the least amount of help.

Lets face it, the veteran teams that they want are the teams with already established software teams and this will give them a head start as to the nuances of the controller.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why they are asking for beta testers. I just wish that they wouldn't favor the teams that already have enough advantages.

As usual, this is JMHO.

To be blunt, the reason they want those teams (In my opinion, obviously) is because those are the teams poised to do the most good. If you send a unit to a rookie team, they're not going to be able to do all the things FIRST wants them to do, and they won't be able to help the community via workshops, etc. You need a team to be well established, have lots of resources and know how to do a thing like this. Yes, it's going to be an advantage for the teams who get one, but how much of a disadvantage will we all be in if nobody gets one, and the bugs never get worked out of the system?

[IndySam]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Here I disagree with you.

There is far more to be learned by hands on training, than by asking questions. FIRST is creating an unbalanced playing field be allowing those that are already established (3+ years in FIRST, "chairmans award winning" attributes) to get direct hands on experiance while the rest of the teams get to watch blogs.

I believe that, with this system, those that need the experiance the most (rookies) will be given the least amount of help.

Lets face it, the veteran teams that they want are the teams with already established software teams and this will give them a head start as to the nuances of the controller.

Don't get me wrong, I understand why they are asking for beta testers. I just wish that they wouldn't favor the teams that already have enough advantages.

As usual, this is JMHO.

I couldn't disagree more. These strong veteran teams will be developing code we can all use. Rookies most of all will benefit from the work of these teams.

These team will be laying the ground work for teams without the programming knowledge and ability. They will make it possible for other teams to build competitive robots.

[Billfred]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

There is far more to be learned by hands on training, than by asking questions. FIRST is creating an unbalanced playing field be allowing those that are already established (3+ years in FIRST, "chairmans award winning" attributes) to get direct hands on experiance while the rest of the teams get to watch blogs.

Not just blogs, mind you--teams are being required to open up their shops to other teams (where one can see things up close, often by necessity if your shop's anything like mine), hold a Saturday workshop (another opportunity to see everything up close), and release all their code (which not only lets me see what they've done on my own time, but gives me a chance to turn their own firepower against them come regionals). It certainly appears that FIRST is doing everything within their power to minimize the competitive advantage these teams could receive. I don't know how one could get an edge on it, short of cheating.

[Mr. Freeman]

Giving the new system to the new teams early might be a better idea. The way it is now, the veteran teams selected for this program aren't going to run into problems because they've been given the system early. Rookie teams are going to have to learn the system as well as go through every other problem rookie teams face programming-wise (such as how to program).

I'm not sure how many bugs veteran teams are going to find in this system anyway. Isn't this just a small version of what NASA used on the mars rovers? (If not then someone correct me) I think NASA and NI would have already found any big problems with this system.

The veteran teams are going to help other teams learn how to use this system, but aren't they still put at an advantage?