09-01-2007 10:18

billbo911

Re: pic: Test Rack Stinger Detail

Before I start,....
Hi Squirrel, haven't talked to you sense Sac. Regional. 2006.

OK, back on subject. I find the "Stinger" interesting. I didn't notice it in the Kick Off video nor do I see it in the animation. But there it is in the documentation, plain as day.
So, the question is: What is it's purpose, and how vital is it to practice with it?
It's obvious that it is in the designs for a reason. So, second question: How does it affect hanging, and removing, the rings?

09-01-2007 10:24

CrazyCanuck809

Re: pic: Test Rack Stinger Detail

I think that it's main purpose is clearly to make it more difficult to place a tube on one of the legs. The stingers are all going to be different too when you consider their flex and stuff like that. Also, remember that they said that a tube resting on the stinger doesn't count. So basically, without the stinger, they probly thought it would be too easy to put a tube on.

As far as practicing with it, I know our team will have them. It would definantly effect how well teams are able to put ringers on.

09-01-2007 11:11

kjohnson

Re: pic: Test Rack Stinger Detail

This is the Rack from the VCU Kickoff. Squirrell, in your picture the tube is up straight, but in my pictures, it is bent toward the outside of the Rack. I remember someone (Dave I think) on the kickoff webcast saying that a ringer would not be scored if it was supported by that automotive tubing. It has to be fully supported by the spider leg.

09-01-2007 11:15

MrForbes

Re: pic: Test Rack Stinger Detail

hi Bill

Think about the orientation of the ring, how the stinger would affect the angle that you would want the ring to be in when hanging it on the rack. Consider a side view of the spider/stinger, and the approaching ring.

Also keep in mind that the spider/stinger will be moving around during the game, which our test rack does not simulate.

I think it's definitely worth the effort to build some type of mockup soon, to get a feel for hanging a ring on.

"hanging" seems to be a good term for the action

The stinger in my picture is mostly veritcal, but it does lean out a little bit. The amount of curve of the stingers is variable, the tubing will take a certain amount of "set" during storage, and the lenght of tubing that I got had been stored very loosely wound up.

Also the VCU stinger shown above is not mounted per the design drawings, which have the mounting channel 2.25" below the top of the disk.

09-01-2007 11:21

dlavery

Re: pic: Test Rack Stinger Detail

Read the last sentence in Section 6.2.2. of the manual. It states the purpose of the STINGER very clearly.

-dave

09-01-2007 12:24

billbo911

Re: pic: Test Rack Stinger Detail

6.2.2 "...A short length of flexible rubber
hose, known as the STINGER, is attached to the back of the SPIDER FOOT. The STINGER
helps prevent GAME PIECES from being knocked out of position once they are HANGING."

I hadn't read every detail yet, so, my ignorance is exposed once again

Thanks Dave!
It's nice to know someone is looking out for us!

09-01-2007 12:29

Elgin Clock

Re: pic: Test Rack Stinger Detail

Maybe this is a question for the entire GDC and the forums, but Dave since you are eyeing this thread already:

If a tube is on a spider leg but the Stinger is not upright as shown in the pic (re: the tube is holding the stinger down parallel-ish with the spider leg and not perpendicular) does the tube still count as owned?

I don't know what made me think of this other than the time we spent messing around with the rack, spider legs, tubes, the stinger and the interactions between all of them at Kickoff, but putting 2 tubes on a spider leg at a certain time will make this happen.

09-01-2007 12:31

MrForbes

Re: pic: Test Rack Stinger Detail

that was mentioned in the kickoff presentation, the ring must contact the spider leg to be counted. It's in the rules too, somewhere....Dave might be able to give us the number

09-01-2007 12:33

Elgin Clock

Re: pic: Test Rack Stinger Detail

It can be touching the spider leg (on the side) and still be on top of the stinger while the stinger is in a laying down position.

My question still remains.

09-01-2007 12:59

MrForbes

Re: pic: Test Rack Stinger Detail

7.2.1 Definitions

HANGING: A GAME PIECE is considered HANGING if it's weight is fully supported by a SPIDER LEG and it has been released by the POSSESSING ROBOT. A GAME PIECE is not considered HANGING if it is supported by the SPIDER FOOT


so the rules don't explicitly state that it can't touch the stinger, but they do explicitly state that all of the weight of the tube must be supported by the spider leg, nothing else.

I suggest you watch the kickoff video for more information on the subject....or watch the Q&A.

09-01-2007 13:35

pauluffel

Re: pic: Test Rack Stinger Detail

Concerning STINGERs and RINGERs

So, Newton's Third Law of Motion:
To every action (force applied) there is an equal and opposite reaction (equal force in the opposite direction). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton's_laws_of_motion

Therefore if the STINGER is not erect, it is having a force exerted down on it by the tube, therefore the STINGER is exerting an equal an opposite (counter-gravitational) force on the tube (i.e. supporting the tube), right?

It may be possible to find a way to have forces applied in such a way that the STINGER is being bent by the RINGER but not supporting the RINGER, but at the end of the match are the refs really going to test which way the forces are being exerted, or are they going to use the simple visual indicator (a STINGER that is anything other than upright) to determine that the RINGER or SPOILER is somewhat supported by the SINGER?

09-01-2007 13:41

MrForbes

Re: pic: Test Rack Stinger Detail

I think that in a static situation like this, you'll have to look at it with a slightly different perspective than a law of motion, perhaps the force required to hold the stinger bent back around. But yes, if the stinger is under the ring, then it reasonably must be supporting some of the ring's weight.

I leave the practical interpretation of the rule to others....

09-01-2007 14:07

dlavery

Re: pic: Test Rack Stinger Detail

Sounds like a perfect question for the Q&A system when it comes up (assuming the timing is consistent with prior years, that should be on Wednesday, after the traditional three-day waiting period that exists for everyone to read the rules).

-dave

09-01-2007 22:39

MrForbes

Re: pic: Test Rack Stinger Detail

I got to visit the test rack today, and played with a stinger...when it is bent back and down, it will just reach the spider leg, but cannot reach a position such that it would be under a ring, while the ring is also contacting the spider leg. So, I think it is pretty much a moot issue.