03-03-2007 22:05

Dantvman27

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

during that match, team 241 tried to get a "This is awesome" chant going, but people do not know how to follow chants


but that match was godly

03-03-2007 22:05

DDAwg3

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Personally I found this match the exact opposite of what is suppose to be one of the biggest elements of FIRST -(Gracious professionalism) not with play like that......they had the match wrapped up and still went and put not just one but two robots up for the additional 60 points. I feel they should be ashamed not applauded. As amentor I would not of allowed that by my team.

03-03-2007 22:06

whytheheckme

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

EDIT: Removed... Bad Timing

03-03-2007 22:11

Dantvman27

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

then you must agree with me on the ungraciousness of a seed one team being aloud to pick a seed 2 team

03-03-2007 22:16

DDAwg3

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Yes I do agree with you , but also one step further that the top four teams should not be allowed to pick each other.........

03-03-2007 22:40

katiyeh07

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I find that to be extremely un true.
How is this ungracious or unprofessional?
If anything we were just playing the game.
501 scored two tubes
Buzz scored six
Our aliance partner had their ramps out
We played the game.
Fair
and square.
The other alliance played defense.
The other alliance had an extremely strong defense
We did nothing to prevent them from scoring
And if I remember correctly they also had one of the best rampbot teams too


I see nothing wrong with this high score.

As a student and ten year participant of FIRST I've seen much more
ungracious and unproffessional things done on the field
that had nothing to do with scoring. No one that left this regional today should be "ashamed" or "not applauded" for what they have done. No one from the FIRST organization should. This high score is simply that...a high score. Some alliance somewhere else will top it.

A score is a score

03-03-2007 22:46

mrsashko

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I agree with you. I haven't seen the match, but by looking at the score it looks like the other alliance did absolutely nothing...
So if they are not doing anything-- was this alliance supposed to just stand and watch them?
(just my thoughts)

03-03-2007 22:52

JamesBrown

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

First of all congratulations, that is a very impressive score.

This was not ungracious or unprofessional, it was instead impressive and an excellent example of engineering, to even try to imply that these three teams are ungracious shows a lack of observation, both 175 and 501 are extremely good examples of what a FIRST team should be ( I am not familiar with 1824) 501 has won the chairman's award at BAE in the past and 175 is a FIRST hall of fame member and the winner of the 2002 national chairman's award.

Honestly, what is less gracious, continuing to play the game the way the bot was designed to play or stopping because you know there is no way the other team can beat you?

Congratulations to 75, 1824 and 501 you guys are class acts and earned your victory in style, my only disappointment is not being able to see it.

James

03-03-2007 22:53

DDAwg3

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Respectfully I will have to disagree that when teams have a 256 point lead and twenty seconds to go in the match ......they did' nt need to drive up the ramp for the additional 60.

03-03-2007 22:55

whytheheckme

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Not to start an argument, but 1721's gripper did get smashed in the beginning of that match. That's why we couldn't spoil your big row or put up tubes for ourselves. We don't, in any way, think this was done intentionally, and we are not sure how it happened, but it is SOME reasoning behind our horrible, horrible, horrible loss. I completely feel that 501's alliance won that match fair and square. I am just clarifying a detail.

Jacob

03-03-2007 22:56

Billfred

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I have to strenuously disagree on two fronts.

First, it's been discussed over and over that GP can not be used to measure others; it's only really used well as an internal measurement of what you should be doing as opposed to what you are doing. But Rich Kressly has gone far deeper into the subject than I, so I'll leave it to him.

Second, and perhaps more important: there is nothing that 1824/175/501 alliance could have done to help their opponents; they can't score for the opponents without penalty, and they can't go up the opposing ramp without a DQ. I can only assume (and feel free to correct me if this wasn't the case) that taking a sip of the mighty Eighterade doesn't involve much defense on the part of the alliance scoring it, either. When you're in a match, you have to remain focused on a million things other than how far ahead or behind you are.

Back in 2005, my old team (1293) had the distinct misfortune of competing against 179 at Palmetto--twice. (Anybody who was around 179 that year knows how crazy that robot was.) While we groaned both times we came up short, I couldn't fault 179 at all--they went hard, played smart, and took their four QPs (and oh so many others) all the way to a Palmetto Regional title. In the end, I wasn't bitter because of it; rather, I wanted to figure out how the heck they did what they did so well.

I fully expect my team to put up the best effort possible, whether we're up against Beatty or a brick. Sandbagging because of the opponent is both a poor strategy (what if they pull out a fluke hang at the end of the match?) and a really lame thing to do, both for the spectators (they see a boring match), your team (scouts see you only hanging a few ringers instead of your true potential), and for the opponents (many of whom, I imagine, feel like I did in the above paragraph).

03-03-2007 22:57

Neo3One3

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

As a member of one of the teams who attained this high score today at the Manchester Regional, I am seriously unsettled from some of the comments to this. How can an alliance who have well built robots that played the match extremely well, working together in every way, possibly be against anything that FIRST is trying to promote.

It has been suggested that the alliance should have not scored so many points, but why is that? Is it more gracious to intentionally do worse? I don't think many, if any people here could agree with that.

03-03-2007 23:01

whytheheckme

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I agree. I have no problem with attaining as many points as possible, seeing that this is the purpose of the game. Again, I believe that this particular match was played fair and square, and this these robots really work awesome together. Why should you limit yourself to what you can do?

Jacob

03-03-2007 23:01

Duke_of_Hazard

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I find it a little funny that you should say that....Your team was borderline with that very thing in boston '06 (you were 2nd and we were 5th, then you approached us). Not to start an argument, but it elicited a laugh from me, considering you take a bit of a hard stance on something you came so close to stepping out of bounds on.

03-03-2007 23:04

katiyeh07

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

You have just put every thought of mine on this topic into magical words...thank you

03-03-2007 23:08

DDAwg3

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

As you just stated...we were 2 nd and you were 5 th ...I also stated that I felt the top four should not be allowed...which is consistant with what I believe...Also until the rule is changed we are not going to try and compete as well..

03-03-2007 23:21

Neo3One3

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Why should it be frowned upon for the team who has made it to the top of the standings to pick a team that they feel will compliment and add to their alliance best, simply because of the fact that they did very well in the regional as well. Penalizing a team for doing exactly what they are supposed to do in a game makes absolutely no sense.

The phrase "Gracious Professionalism" is being thrown around much too often to try to support anything and everything that a certain individual feels is unjust. It is not right to remind people of gracious professionalism when they find the seats that their team sat in yesterday were gotten to earlier by another team the next day when the rule is clearly that seating is on a first come, first serve basis. It is not right to bring it up in this instance either.

03-03-2007 23:48

LocknLoad

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

For anyone who was not there here is the video of team 501, 175, 1428 scoring 316 points in the semi-finals (The same team won the regional later on)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGFJACb36xg
Note:This video was not made by team 501

Personally I agree with everything that katiyeh07 and Neo3One3 have said, we played the game fair and square. Listin to the crowd, can you imagine the adrenaline those teams must have been feeling?

03-03-2007 23:52

Joe Menassa

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Here is a photo that I snapped following the match-



BAE was a great time. Great job everyone!

03-03-2007 23:55

EnderWiggin

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Thanks for pointing this out, people seem to think this is a competition [/sarcasm]

04-03-2007 00:01

JulieB

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Let start by saying I have not seen the match.

The drive team aren’t trying to be ungracious they down there talking about how they want to play the game. And there not saying “hey guys we are winning, stop we don’t want hurt the other teams feelings” as harsh as that sounds teams are only thinking about there game. And they have spend 6 weeks of blood, sweat and tears into something they want to see do its best. And I know most teams want to be both gracious and compete. When all is say done its COMPETITON it’s just a game we do to have fun and to learn about engineering and technology.

This is my opinion not an opinion of my team.

Good LUCK everyone awesome score guys.

04-03-2007 00:02

artdutra04

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

As a friendly reminder, the true spirit of GP is found on and off the playing field, and ChiefDelphi definitely qualifies as the latter. So before everyone becomes so quick to hit the Reply button, think about what you are going to write. Would it qualify as 100% Grandma Approved?

04-03-2007 00:10

jgannon

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

What's more painful: for someone to keep beating up on you when they're ahead, or for someone to be so confident that they've beaten you that they let up? There's no right answer; different people have different opinions, different feelings, different emotions. The best way to be beyond reproach is to always just play the game to the best of your ability. My understanding is that in this particular case there was no taunting, no jeering, just an alliance who played what is so far the highest-scoring round of Rack 'n Roll, and thus no need to accuse others of being ingracious.

04-03-2007 00:19

whytheheckme

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I agree. BUZZ even came up to us after and thanked us for playing with them, and told us that we were an awesome alliance/team. I don't believe there were ANY hard feelings anywhere, in fact, I'm not even sure what the big deal is here... The alliance simply played the game and followed the plan that they probably set out beforehand. Score,Defend,Ramp. Sounds pretty generic. They were just able to implement it very well.

Jacob

04-03-2007 00:27

Tom Bottiglieri

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I hate to be profound, but..

Of everything I have ever read on Chief Delphi, and believe me, I don't miss much, this statement has to be the most ridiculous things I have ever seen. I think its a bogus claim to make that team Buzz, quite possibly one of the most influential and inspirational teams of them all, would purposely do something that went against the "morals" of FIRST. They went out and played a clean, fair match. Sure, the alliances weren't "balanced" or "fair", but may I ask when life is? You must remember that we play with alliances of three teams, and the third team can make or break a competition. Apparently 501 and 175 had great scouts because they were able to pick up such a great 2nd round pick in 1824. Every other alliance had the chance to pick them, but none did, which is their own loss.

Now, any of the alliances in eliminations could have beaten the 501/175/1824 alliance. NO team out there this weekend was polished enough to be called "dominant". So apparently, 501 and Buzz not only have great scouts, but a great strategist. They played the game in a way which made the most sense to them. Each team complimented each other, and they played off of their opponent's weaknesses. This seems totally "fair" to me.

And just for the record: After that match, I gave that alliance a standing ovation. That is the only time I stood up for ANY team all weekend. Now, I'm pumped to start strategizing for my next regional. ALL because of that one match.

04-03-2007 01:20

David Brinza

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

The red alliance acted in a manner consistent with the tournament rules in achieving their highest possible score in a match (especially in their first match)!

Note added in edit:
I didn't realize that the score was for Match 5 of the Elimination Round (the match results from BAE hadn't been posted). The High Match Score only has ranking implications in the qual rounds. I noticed, though, that six teams (including 501) managed to score 256 match points during qual round matches at BAE - good work!

Per the game manual (Section 9):

The highest match score is a tie-breaker if the ranking points aren't sufficient to break a tie in the standings. The teams on that alliance couldn't assume that a complete ring wouldn't happen in another match. Their robots getting up on the ramp wasn't about "rubbing it in", it was earned as a result of hard work by those teams. The red alliance was simply being the best they could be...

Competitive spirit drives FIRST teams to achieve the highest score possible. If FIRST will be "the sport, the 21st century sport" (per Dean's kickoff message), then the FIRST community needs to applaud the effort it takes to play the game at peak performance. Especially when doing it right out of the box.

Good job, teams!

I just wonder if this score will stand through next weekend??

04-03-2007 01:55

EricH

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I did not see the match, but I have this to say:

I hate having someone back off on me during a competition, especially when they're ahead. That's kind of condescending, definitely bragging, and it's demoralizing to me. If you're going to cream me anyway, do it right!

04-03-2007 02:19

Rick-906

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

in my opinion, buzz and co. played extremely well, and are completely undeserving of any accusations or unprofessional play!

while they were a great alliance, they were by no means unbeatable [which we proved in the semis].

these guys had their strategy down, and they executed it perfectly, while we were focused on scoring final points, they scored the 2 12" ramp bonuses and came back from a losing score to win the deciding match.

good work guys!

04-03-2007 03:19

ScoutingNerd175

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Team 175 always drives up the ramp. That has been a major point of our strategy for two years. When you can score bonus points by driving up a ramp, do it. We won the Chesapeake regional last year on the strength of doing just that.

We know what it's like to be beaten by a wickedly awesome score. Last year in the quarter finals at nationals, we were beaten by what I believe is the highest score from last year-171 points. Was it disappointing to lose? Yes. But was it a good show? Yes, it was one of the best matches played all of last year.

And I agree with jgannon, how would it honestly feel to have a team just stop playing because they are absolutely sure that they have beaten you? Frankly, that sounds a lot worse to me than seeing the opposing team play as hard as they can and losing to them by a landslide.

04-03-2007 09:03

skimoose

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

We've all been in matches where our alliances have been crushed, or have dominated. That's part of the luck of the draw. Being on the receiving end a big lose has value, too. Did the drive team fall back to a backup plan or just choke? Did they give up or continue to drive in a calm and professional manner? As an athlete, I would always do my best regardless of how out-classed I was. I don't want my opponents easing up on me, because I won't reach my personal best.

This match was extremely clean and there was NOTHING unprofessional about it. If I was on the losing side of this match I wouldn't be offended, especially when it's the first match of the QF. Time to come up with a new game plan in a hurry! That's what seperates winners from losers. Adapt and overcome, or give up and go home. There is still victory in losing. I would have left this competition knowing that I was beaten by the winning alliance in a fair match. 501, 175, & 1824 obviously had a great alliance and a great game plan. It's obvious watching the match that they executed their game plan perfectly.

Congratulations to team 501, 175, & 1824 for winning the Granite State Regional!

Billfred pointed out correctly that the alliance would suffer penalties for trying to assist the losing alliance. There was a match at VCU this weekend that was LOST by the alliance dominating the rack scoring because they were hit with several penalties. This was also a Quarter-Final match, not a qualifying match, things are just a little different.

Eliminations are to win period.

As far as banning the 1-4 seeds from choosing each other, why?

Alliance selection is about picking teams and robots that will compliment your strengths and offset your weaknesses. I've seen many of these high seed alliances LOSE a competition because they simply chose the other high seeds, and not the teams that would work best with their own robots. It's no different than certain professional ball teams that spend ridiculous amounts of money to acquire the best players and still lose.

I've seen many high scoring robots low in the standings after the qualification matches, only because of poor alliance pairings and bad luck, and I've seen 1 and 2 seeds that were pulled to the top by their qualification alliances inspite of their own mediocre performance. I even recall a "no show" at a post season event, that nearly ended up as an eigth seed alliance captain because they weren't pulled from the match lists and the alliances they were supposed to be in ended up giving them a 4-2-0 record!

Moral of alliance selection... choose well grasshopper!

04-03-2007 09:45

DDAwg3

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Listen one and all....It was not my intention to get everyone's panties in a bunch AND I was not making a reference that any of those teams were not very good or effective....IT was very evident throughout the tournement that 175 and 501 were scoring machines and only increased their potency by picking their ramp team. NO DOUBT ABOUT IT! Also I have no ill feelings or before or after any of these teams and have played with and agianst them in the past. I also want everyone to realize we did not get the oppurtunity of playing with or against any of these three teams and I have no sour feelings or don't think they are deserving champions of the GSR.

All I did and still stand by my initial (YES I SAID MY) view, not trying to throw sand in the eyes of the champion but for everyone to come up with all these reasons.

Listen they did have great scouting, plans, drivers, robots, etc. and with that said they were finely tuned enough to know they did nt need the points, the ratio for any tie breaker, etc.

Once and for all to kill the poor discussion ---- My bad for saying it apprehently but that it still one man's view and I have no ill feelings toward them. I apologize if I have OFFENDED any of you........

Regards,

Scott

04-03-2007 09:49

Justin

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I have always found this take on things within FIRST puzzling. It seems that within the last few years (probably post-2001) there is an increasing school of though that some how if a team plays the game to win they are just being bullies and it is not gracious professionalism.

I have to say I reject that. Dean likes to talk about "coopertition" but frankly FIRST is still a competition and that is what makes it fun, that is what makes FIRST work, that is what makes the business world that FIRST tries to hard to emulate work. Without it we are stuck with something as horrific as 2001.

Lastly, from a strategy point of view I can say that over the years I have seen lots of teams who have taken the approach of being gracious professionals on the playing field loose by taking some of their balls/whatever and giving them to the other team. On the playing field I think a team has every right to compete, play hard (within the rules), and play to win. As long as that team can go up and shake hands with the alliance after, that is what gracious professionalism is about. Perhaps the best example of my thinking on this is there are teams who will play quite hard on the field perhaps even damage a robot from the opposing alliance but the true test of gracious professionalism is when that same team goes over and helps the opposing team that they damaged fix their robots for the finals. That is how it is supposed to work. Sadly if we want to talk about "ungracious professionalism" this match was the least of what I saw in terms of ungracious professionalism.

Respectfully,

Justin

04-03-2007 11:15

hipsterjr

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

How in the world do you doubt their GP for playing the game! People have been complaining all week about the low scores and now you are attacking them for an awesome match.

04-03-2007 13:54

dbell

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I was really impressed to see this round.
I think that scoring the extra 60 points was being GP. If I was a grandmother of a kid on 501, 175, or 1824 I would have been very proud

Getting the points for the ramp did not embarrass the other team any more (i don't think). The crowd got excited though. If they had gone to the other alliance after that round and bragged that would not be GP. But they didn't do that.

FIRST is about doing your best, and 175, 501, and 1824 did that. Great job guys!

04-03-2007 14:18

StephLee

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I'd like to point out on Buzz's behalf: last year during the finals at Chesapeake, we were paired with them and one of our opponents suffered a big amount of damage to one of their gearboxes. They called their timeout to try and fix it, but when it didn't look like they'd have enough time, Buzz suggested we call ours to give them a shot. This is *after* our alliance narrowly lost the first match of the finals, so we were one match away from losing.

Not trying to make any real point, just bringing up a story that this thread reminded me of. It's the kind of thing that makes FIRST so much more than other competitions.

04-03-2007 14:30

whytheheckme

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Yes, last year I was on 181, the loser of that set of 3 matches. Buzz was very, very Graciously Professional by giving up their time-out. I believe that Buzz is a very good team, both physically (their robot), and GPly. After the second match yesterday, their whole drive team came up to us (Myself and the rest of the drive team,) shook our hands and thanked us for playing. I am always really impressed by Buzz.

Jacob

04-03-2007 14:43

teenmisfit

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I was the driver and alliance captain (John Willis) for 501. The ramps were the best part (imho) of driving. It was the most challenge for me inside to line up and go. I had the chance and wanted to play the game since that is the whole purpose for our dedication to building a robot for 6 weeks. This is my opinion and im sad that it seems you think we were being unprofessional.

Ill admit i made one unprofessional mistake when i pushed a robot and then they caught the rack and tipped when i pulled away and were caught on them. That was my dumb dumb and i graciously appologized right after the match and offered any services to help fix them if they needed it.

Team 501's goal this year was to play the game. We did and buzz helped us put up the tubes for the 256pts and 1824 deserved there chance at scoring points. They spent 6 weeks to build a bot with not much help and they made it to finals. i was not going to let them down by not driving on there ramp.

As for the seed picking it does seem unfair. I can see that because in the 2 days of competition i was so scared that we wouldnt be the top 1 or 2 seed. Because on average those two pair up and win. and i did want to win like most teams. I do agree with that but from our standpoint picking buzz was the best move for the team as was picking 1824.

I'm sorry if we upset anyone because 501 would like to make a positive image for itself among first. It has greatly influenced my life and i will always help first as a mentor when i am older.

04-03-2007 15:30

Lil' Lavery

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

The mere thought that scoring as many points as you can to win is ridiculous. It displays a flagrant disillusion about the values of FIRST, Gracious Professionalism, and competition.

A similar discussion arose for scoring for your opponents last season.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ghlight=points

I said it then as well:

Now this year, it's a penalty to score for the opponent. So, we have more lopsided scores. And what happened? Someone started complaining about that. Now I don't believe FIRST gave that penalty to discourage scoring for the opponent (but rather because of the limited quantity of game pieces).
Especially considering that this really actually could have become a close match very very fast. What if the opposing alliance had placed spoilers on the rack? They could have reduced that 256 row to a mere 16 points (2 rows of 3).

04-03-2007 15:33

skimoose

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Scott, I wasn't offended, nor did I see this as an affront to the winning alliance. However, I do see your views as hurting the FIRST program in general. FIRST is about inspiring students. Great matches inspire students.

Even when our team is on the losing side of a match, we get inspired by a great winning alliance. We try to take something positive out of the experience. Whether it's new mechanical systems that made a great robot, great driving skills, a unique strategy, or just a well executed plan. Is it fun to lose? NO, but we WANT to go back and work harder! "Wait 'til next year" isn't a bad thing, it's a door opening to unlimited possibilities.

FIRST has gone out of their way this year to try to bring parity to the competition through the rules. Some of these changes aren't for the better. Instead of inspiring teams to work harder and improve to compete with some of the "big boys", they've tried to limit the "big boys" so others feel like they have a chance with a mediocre design. Inspiration doesn't come from average performances or machines, but from the exceptional.

If teams are designing robots and playing the games within the rules, FIRST DOESN'T NEED NASCAR RESTRICTER PLATES!

May the best designs and best game play win. Game ON!

And, this is just my opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree with it either.

04-03-2007 15:38

skimoose

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Woot!!

Now that's what I'm talking about. How to turn a negative into a positive!

Thank You.

04-03-2007 15:46

whytheheckme

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Right! Had 1721's manipulator not have been damaged, this would have happened! We had the spoilers on the field and everything. It was just an unfortunate series of events for us, all of which were fair and square.

Jacob

04-03-2007 17:23

T3_1565

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I agree with what is mostly said already. I am also an athlete. In any other sport, it is part of the game to get in peoples heads, taunting them, doing ridiculious things, etc. etc. but this is why FIRST is different. I would see it as taunting us if they sat there and did nothing for the last 45 secs of the round, or if they spun around in circles wasting time. What do you expect them to do? If they spun around in circles for that time, there would be a topic posted about how they taunted the other time by not doing anything for the last 45 secs. As one who plays in sports, where taunting and showmanship is part of the game, I feel insulted more when someone stops trying just because they know that we have no chance of beating them. its a sport, scores like that happen. You never see a NBA team stop playing because there winning to the point that they couldn't possibly lose. You never see a football team stop playing defence because there ahead by 70 points (just a random number by the way). Its how sports work, you try your best, you see what the outcome is, you go about it in a fair positive way, and no body should feel like crap afterwards.

04-03-2007 23:01

teenmisfit

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

You could not be more right! the last two years i sat in the stands and watch our team lose and lose again but its amazing the inspiration you get for next year. all i thought about was how i wanted to be that amazing bot next year. And for once in a great while my dream of having a robot my senior year do well really seals the deal that good things happen in small places. My words are jumbled but my dream of building and driving a robot to victory have come true. (though if you watched, our alliance partners REALLY pulled our weight in the finals. It seemed we didnt do much) This being my senior year and hopefully getting to drive for us again at atlanta. First really does give inspiration, way farther than i thought it would ever hit me. So much emotion went through me over this weekend and if you saw me in the pits after a match u prolly saw me leaning my head on my dad because First helped me achieve a personal goal.

05-03-2007 00:04

Petey

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I don't agree with this. It may be incestuous but if the powerhouses can pick each other and thus put themselves in a better place to qualify for nationals, that is a good move. 501 and 175 were the two best teams, as determined by the qualifying rounds. Why shouldn't they have the advantage in trying to qualify for nationals?

BUT IT WAS AWESOME.

Listen, my team lost in the finals to that alliance, and I've never suffered a more entertaining arse-kicking. Case closed.

05-03-2007 00:34

whytheheckme

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Agreed. I was in AWE when I looked across the field and watched that last bot climb up 1824 over the complete row of rings. My mouth dropped open, probably said a couple of not nice words, and was extremely impressed. I Congratulate teams 501, 175 and 1824 for getting the so-far-standing high score.

Jacob

05-03-2007 08:51

arabsponsor

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

When the drive team is on the floor they are concentrating on doing the best they can. Every team has worked hard for 6 weeks and want to see how their engineering miracle performs. I applaud these 3 teams for working so effectively with one another. I hope we see a match like this at Peachtree and Palmetto. It would be wonderful to see. I think every team out there dreams of putting on a stellar performance like this.

05-03-2007 19:11

griff549

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

i deffnitly agree with you scottie the fact that they went for the ramp points was humilating to the other alliance. that was not good sportsmanship and thats is deffnitly on of the things that first is based on

05-03-2007 19:27

griff549

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

may i point out that one of the morals of first is sportsmanship and humaliating a allaince so you can have a high score is not showing good sportsmanship if u ask me. this wasnt even against my allaince and i still think it is rediclious. did they really need to score over 200 points to win they could have stoped after 100 and would have won. so to back up my mentor this is not a rediclious statement at all if you think about it.

05-03-2007 19:36

Dan Petrovic

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

In my mind, I'd find it more humiliating if the team put a little bit of effort into the first minute of it then just give up in an attempt to make the opponent look better.

If I'm going to be beaten by a team, I want them to show us what exactly they are made of.

05-03-2007 19:40

Jonathan Norris

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

here is another video of the match (its nh_qf1m2): http://soap.circuitrunners.com/2007/movies/nh/

05-03-2007 19:42

Billfred

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

While this wasn't clear from the initial photo, it should be noted that this was in an elimination match. QPs and RPs and other niceties* clocked out before lunch; at this point, the sole objective of each alliance is to score more points than their opponents within the bounds of the rules.

But, since the matter has been brought up, let's examine what would happen if the advice were followed not to aim for a drink of Eighterade because doing your best is "not showing good sportsmanship." Let's just say that the alliance hung one ringer, drove up the ramps, and sat there for a minute and a half. What aspect of the remaining 90 seconds of minimal game action for this particular match is particularly inspiring? What aspect of this 90 seconds is going to help FIRST gain more exposure? What aspect of this 90 seconds is going to have the five-year-old kid sitting in the stands jumping up and down, waiting for the day that he's able to get working on one of these things?

Getting whooped in a match may sting, but the converse is the far worse fate.

05-03-2007 20:32

teenmisfit

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

You guys gave us "the best offensive robot award"...

with that said i would like for you to reread what i said concerning why we scored those points... you obviously missed our reasoning for doing it.

On another note, if you have ever driven or been on a drive team (u dont sound like you have) you should understand that u dont really watch what the other alliance does for points when you scoring. You are just trying to do your best to play the game.

Now can we please get on with positive discussion because this bashing of our alliance is starting to hurt, really. We tried our best and the only unsportsmanship going on is u saying we deliberately humiliated another alliance. You ARE mistaken in your words for you do not know what was going through our head when we were playing that match.

05-03-2007 23:13

Petey

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Don't worry, 501. As should be clear from this thread, this is just a case of a couple people who have a mistaken impression of 501/175's character and a wrongheaded construction of "gracious professionalism."

05-03-2007 23:14

Neo3One3

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

May I ask which you would find more humiliating as a driver? Being beaten by a team who gave it their all, or being beaten by a team who stopped half way during the match because they didn't need to try anymore?

That of course, is beside the point anyway. Any driver knows (much as teenmisfit has added) that you do not see anything but your own alliance on the field, unless one of your opponents' robots is defending against you.

05-03-2007 23:38

Lil' Lavery

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

As far as I'm concerned, they were only up by 16 points (a pair of spoilers can break a row of 8 into 2 rows of 3). A quantity outmatched by a single opposing robot 12" high. No actions taken by the #1 alliance were unreasonable in any train of thought, even one as flawed as yours.

06-03-2007 07:35

griff549

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

i would find it humilating that a team beat me by that many points i really dont understand y they needed to keep going on after i think being beatin by over 200 points would be extremly humilating

06-03-2007 08:09

ChrisMcK2186

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

This is my rookie year in FIRST and I would like to say that from my interpretation of GP and "Sportsmanship", the alliance did nothing wrong! They played their best. The scoring of the ramp points was not a jab in the ribs of the other side, it was the team trying to use their 6 week project to maximum potential.

At the VCU regional, my team suffered several defeats from the same team we played every round. By the logic of this thread, after round one, the should have stopped and let us win a few. I would have been insulted that a team thinks so little of us if they did that. Instead, both of our driver teams did the best they could and we all had a nice time. The true test of the GP is after the matches. The team that slaughtered us had one member come over at the end and talk to me. He apologized for the constant barrage, saying that at each victory, they would be screaming and celebrating but would look across the pit aisle and see our team a wee bit depressed. That is the true meaning of GP. They came over after several matches and tried to figure out what they could do to help us win. Team Ackward Turtles, I salute your GP and resounding victories.

Chris

06-03-2007 08:53

StephLee

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

I second that. This thread should be about congratulating the alliance on such an impressive score, not bringing them down.

Several members of the opposing alliance have already stated that they have no hard feelings towards the winners, so why is it still an issue? Those of you who feel it was done in poor sportsmanship...I'll agree to disagree: if your alliance is ever faced with this kind of win and decides against continuing to score, you can deal with it then, but it's a choice for each team and each alliance to make, not a community-wide standard.

This thread is unnecessary and surely isn't doing much except annoy everyone involved, on both sides. The arguements have been stated; they obviously aren't accepted by either side. Let's prove that GP is alive and well (in whatever form it takes for each person) and allow this thread to die, with no hard feelings. Agreeing to disagree can be a beautiful thing.

06-03-2007 11:25

Steve W

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

There seems to be a lot of bashing and defending on this thread. I believe that the most gracious thing to do at this point is stop the bad vibes from spreading. I am asking Brandon to close this thread, but for now let's all cool down, ENJOY this event called FIRST and see how much we have grown this year.

06-03-2007 11:39

Mike Martus

Re: pic: BAE Systems-Granite State Regional High Score

Ok there has been a lot of great points for both positions. This is a topic that has no real yes or no answer and can cause debate to go on forever. At this point I think both sides have vented and made their feelings known. Enough said.

I will be closing this thread.