21-07-2007 20:02

Nuttyman54

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

Did you ever do it? I only saw the elimination matches

21-07-2007 20:30

Jonathan Norris

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

the closest they got was scoring the first one, then came back and picking up the second, but dropped it before they got to the rack. Very impressive

22-07-2007 09:44

johnr

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

when you get to watch the six keepers on video, keep an eye on us(910). we still ran the double keeper program and it looks like we would have made a seventh. i hope we can pull it off at marc.

22-07-2007 22:43

team 1094

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

i was driving our robot during IrI ( the orange one). they told us to do that and it was legal, so when the match started their robot went for the rack but missed and then they attempted to hang the other on the rack, but the time ran out.

22-07-2007 22:52

lukevanoort

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

I saw a couple of their attempts on the webcast, it was pretty cool, but sorta sad to see them score, go back to get the next tube and run out of time. It seemed that the trip back was what really kept them from getting two, not the actual challenge of scoring a keeper twice. Have you guys considered adding something like a little servo actuated half claw or similar to hold the second tube by the robot while the first is scored?

22-07-2007 23:02

Chris Fultz

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

I dont think you can do that. You would have two tubes in your 'possession' (one in the gripper and one in the holding claw) and that is not allowed.

22-07-2007 23:11

lukevanoort

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

In the famous words of Homer Simpson, DOH! Darn, now I'm out of ideas that don't involve attempting to throw tubes at the rack. (And, judging by how difficult that was for human players, I'm pretty certain it would be a rather unreliable method)

22-07-2007 23:40

Greg Needel

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

true, but it is only a 10 point penalty for scoring while in possession of 2 tubes. In a situation like IRI where you get 15 bonus points you could still end up with 20 points bonus and 2 keepers on the rack which sounds like a justifiable reason to take the penalty.

23-07-2007 00:49

Herodotus

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

Except you can't start with two keepers in your possession so that idea won't work. Also purposely taking a penalty isn't exactly GP. We were disappointed that we couldn't get the second keeper up in a real match however we are elated because we have gotten the second keeper onto the rack at our little practice field time and time again, we might have some video of that somewhere. At first we though our practice rack may have been off which caused our auto to be off on the real field but in reality it is all about positioning. We can do the whole cycle in under 15 seconds consistently but only if we get that second keeper positioned correctly behind the robot.

However we've started to get it down and we feel very confident that we will be able to double score at MARC, so keep an eye out for us there.

23-07-2007 02:32

Greg Needel

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

It is true that you can't start with 2 keepers in your possession but that isn't what was said here. If you set up the same way that you did with one of your alliance partners touching the keeper you could grab it at the start of auto mode with your second gripper.

Personally I don't feel that GP has anything to do with this situation. I consider this thinking outside the box. Scoring 2 tubes in auto mode is a feat which has not been done and requires this kind of thinking. I put this situation along with others I saw throughout the season, such as teams who get a ringer stuck on a flag choosing to keep scoring in order to get a long row enough to win; if you could get a row of 7 or 8 it seems worthwhile because in most situations you could still loose. IMO knowing the action and the consequences there are times in which taking a penalty can help your alliance and that has nothing to do with GP.

23-07-2007 22:04

Herodotus

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

Hmm you make some good points. However at this point I think we are going to stick with the loading off the ground. Timing hasn't really been our problem so grabbing the tube sooner isn't really going to get it working. When we see the second half of auton go it almost always completely finishes, the problem is with grabbing the tube in the first place. Picking a tube up off the ground in auton isn't easy and most of all requires proper placement of the keeper. However I think we have actually gotten the robot to be consistent in it's picking up of the second tube now so we should be able to get it to run correctly at MARC. So keep an eye out for some video after he MARC competition

But also more importantly, we really don't have any place to put the second gripper. But yeah if we had been designing from the beginning specifically to run a double auton mode then a second claw would have been useful. But that brings up the fact we didn't know there would be 15 point bonuses at IRI until quite a bit after the build season to building a second claw into the frame really didn't make sense at the time of construction.

But I can see what you are getting at, taking a penalty to win a game doesn't have to be a bad thing, as long as it isn't a penalty that involves destroying another robot or something like that.

26-07-2007 12:15

FoleyEngineer

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

Does anyone know if MARC, ThinkFordFirst, or Kettering will use the "new and improved" IRI rules? I sure hope so as they were really nice enhancements to this year's game.

26-07-2007 12:45

Jim Meyer

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

I certainly liked the new rules, even having a 4th machine on the alliance. Neat little strategy twist.

The only rule left to be fixed is the possession of more than one tube at at time rule. It should be reworded to prohibit intentional posession of more than one tube at at time. I just find it really silly that if a tube is accidentally thrown onto a robot, and it can't be removed, it puts them out of commission for the entire match. I saw it happen to 330 at IRI, it was very disheartening. I don't think that it would be too hard to judge either. I'd rater have a ref make a tough call every once in a blue moon than the way things played out this year.

26-07-2007 15:28

GaryVoshol

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

Yeah, it happens. At least twice at IRI. And I wondered why with all those great machines, no one tried to have their alliance partner remove the ringer for them?
Almost every double-ringer possession could be considered unintentional. Why would anyone want to put a ringer on a place where it cannot be shaken off? Flags are the usual culprit, but sometimes the ringer slips down around the bot's arm. That human player didn't intend to throw the ringer around the flag, so why not let it go? Your alliance partner didn't intend to drop the ringer and have it miss the spider leg, and bounce off onto your robot. Intent - wanting to do it - simply has no part in the decision. Every call would have to be, "Well, we don't think they wanted that ringer on their flag, so no call." It would totally eliminate the rule.

If the rule is eliminated, then there is nothing to prevent a robot from collecting up all the ringers of the opposing alliance and not allow them to score. That probably was the GDC's intention (there's that word again) for the rule. But you can't dismiss accidental possession without gutting the rule.

26-07-2007 16:45

MGoelz

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

Actually during one of the matches in which 330 got a ringer caught on their flag, they did have their alliance partner remove it.
I can't remember who removed it though. I want to say it was either 16 or 116...but I'm not positive.

26-07-2007 20:33

JackN

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

Yeah it was the Bomb Squad that pulled the ringer off. That was one of the highlights of the competition for me.

27-07-2007 09:16

Tetraman

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

It's not up to the refs to learn what each robot can do, thats why this rule was put in place.

27-07-2007 09:22

Jeremiah Johnson

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

Then what would be called if the opposite alliance placed a ringer on the robot? That's effectively disabling the robot and "unfair" if you ask me... I've seen it happen many times, and even at least once in the elims at IRI. But it really doesn't matter because the season's over...

27-07-2007 13:19

jgannon

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

<G09> covers this.

28-07-2007 03:38

Nuttyman54

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

Per <G09>, I know I saw a few instances this year where an HP threw a ring (accidentally or intentionally, I don't know) onto an opposing robot. The robot continued to score and was not penalized.

18-08-2007 00:14

FoleyEngineer

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

We got the double-score tonight at the MARC competition. It was a practice round, and they didn't use their brand new "keeper" tubes, and we didn't bother to put our partner's corner touching the side of the tube, but still got the double on an official rack. Our home made rack is a little "off" from the official one so it took a while to get calibrated to the field rack perfectly, but it seems pretty good now. Hopefully we'll get another double or two tomorrow in more "official" matches. For now, here's a picture of the second one going on as time ran out.

By the way, MARC looks like it's going to be a LOT of fun. Way to go MARC Team!



and here's a link to the video posted on the MARC forum (near the bottom of the thread page):

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...t=57709&page=3

18-08-2007 00:58

jgannon

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

Amazing! Congratulations, guys... this is a spectacular achievement.

18-08-2007 01:50

AndreasBecker

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

Hey Its Andreas The Rookie Of Foley Freeze
Anyway I Have A Live Video (A Bit Fuzzy) Of Our Achivement

Robotics Team 910 - Double Cap (YouTube)

07-10-2007 22:16

FoleyEngineer

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

For anyone following this thread, at the ARC (Autumn Robotics Competition) this past weekend at Macomb College in Michigan, we finally did it in an official match. In fact, it was the last match of the day in the finals. There are several videos of the event and I'm sure someone took a picture or two.

See this delphi thread: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d=1#post645172

Take care all and see you in '08!

08-10-2007 07:53

Chief Pride

Re: pic: Foley Freeze doubles up

ironicy? (is that even a word...? [no, it is not]) xD

pretty funny with the name and what they did... maybe its just me... who knows xD!