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 I didn't get inspired watching my peers and I, I was inspired watching professionals. - AdamHeard [more] |
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This wheel was spotted at the AndyMark table at IRI. Here's what they were saying was in the pipeline (if I remember correctly--also, of course, subject to change):
-4", 6", and 8" sizes
-Price point around $20 with tread
-Plastic similar to that of the FIRST wheel (we just saw a prototype)
-Wedgetop clamped in place--no more rivets!
The $20 price point caught my attention--that's not much more than what we lay out to make our FIRST-derived wheels on our own, although we do get four of those in the kit. I'll be watching for these.
Discussion
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21-07-2008 22:54
R.C.
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
A quick question for anyone that went to IRI and saw this, what is the weight. Also how do you mount the sprocket to this baby.
21-07-2008 22:56
Billfred
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
I handled the 4" wheel, and it felt roughly comparable to the FIRST wheel. Of course, the wheel was a prototype of a different plastic--that weight is subject to change.
As for sprockets, it's got the de facto standard 1.875" bolt circle for mounting.
21-07-2008 23:01
R.C.
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
Thanks, I like how all the andy mark products have the sprockets mounted with bolts. We used to JB Weld the sprockets to a shaved down wheel from Motion Industries.
21-07-2008 23:03
Greg Needel
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by rc_cola1323
A quick question for anyone that went to IRI and saw this, what is the weight. Also how do you mount the sprocket to this baby.
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The bore has 2 levels the outter bore and center bore. The center bore is designed to take AM hubs for live axle and the outside bore is designed to accept bearings.
The wheel has the standard 1.875 bolt hole pattern and is compatible with most other AM products.
21-07-2008 23:34
=Martin=Taylor=
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
About how wide was it, and what are the dia.'s of the bores?
Maybe we'll get these in the kit eh?
22-07-2008 00:52
MrForbes
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
I was gonna say, that sure looks like a 3d printer model....
Nice wheel! probably a 1-1/8" counter bore for the bearing, with a 7/8" hole size so you can use either 3/8" or 1/2" ID standard bearings.
22-07-2008 01:06
s_forbes
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
Yes! Clamping treads into place makes things so much easier to deal with... mainly due to the lack of rivets!
Team 60 was showing us their innovative wheels, which clamp the tread in the same manner. I was thinking to myself how awesome it would be to be able to do that.... but our machining abilities are limited. These wheels would make it possible for us.
Why is AndyMark so awesome?
22-07-2008 09:32
Richard Wallace
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by s_forbes
... Why is AndyMark so awesome?
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1) Andy
2) Mark
3) Synergy (see 1 and 2 above)
--------
I look forward to seeing these wheels in production. Lighter, cheaper, stronger.
22-07-2008 14:54
Madison
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by squirrel
I was gonna say, that sure looks like a 3d printer model....
Nice wheel! probably a 1-1/8" counter bore for the bearing, with a 7/8" hole size so you can use either 3/8" or 1/2" ID standard bearings. |
These wheels look great -- a much lighter alternative to AM's existing traction wheels.
22-07-2008 17:13
team222badbrad
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
Those can't be prototypes!
22-07-2008 18:56
Jonathan Norris
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
I'm interested in seeing how the tread is 'clamped' into place. The only problem I've had with the old version of the wheel is having to replace the tread and drilling out the rivets holes. Then eventually having the holes grow too large for the rivets.
22-07-2008 19:06
AdamHeard
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
I can't believe I missed these at IRI.
Hopefully it's not too long before we get details on material, weight, dimensions, etc...
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris
I'm interested in seeing how the tread is 'clamped' into place. The only problem I've had with the old version of the wheel is having to replace the tread and drilling out the rivets holes. Then eventually having the holes grow too large for the rivets.
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22-07-2008 19:57
Cory
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris
I'm interested in seeing how the tread is 'clamped' into place. The only problem I've had with the old version of the wheel is having to replace the tread and drilling out the rivets holes. Then eventually having the holes grow too large for the rivets.
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22-07-2008 20:51
techtiger1
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
As Cory said above they are the beadlock style that 60/254/968 have used for years. The wheels do look very nice and I am sure they will be pretty light. A very good off the shelf solution to a light wheel that can take a beating. Looks to be another great AndyMark product.
22-07-2008 21:17
Andy Baker
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
Here's the scoop:
We will be making 3 versions of this wheel, eventually.
6" diameter wheel is in production now. It is being molded out of black polycarbonate, just like the inside of the FIRST Kit Wheel and the Plastic Omni Wheel. The wheel will come with 12 fasteners (#10-32 screws and nuts), but without tread. We will have tread available, but not included. The target price of the 6" wheel is around $24. We hope to have the 6" wheel available within 4-5 weeks.
Depending on the demand for the 6" wheel, we will make a 4" wheel this fall. This won't be available until much later this fall. Price will be a bit lower than the 6".
If demand is really high, then we may make a 8" version soon. I don't know if we can afford a third mold. This version may be for next summer.
As for the design, this is inspired by the 60/254/968 development of this sort of tread attachment technique. Hopefully, these treads will not need a rivet at each end of the tread, but we shall see once testing begins.
The 4" and 6" sized wheels are designed so that PVC pipe can be sandwiched between the two halves in order to make the wheel wider. This is our design theory, and has not been tested yet. The 4" wheel is designed to accept 3" PVC (od = 3.5") and the 6" wheel is designed to accept 5" PVC (od = 5.56) in order to create wider wheels. I suppose that someone could make a 12" wide wheel (or whatever size), if all works out as planned.
The hubs for these 3 wheels are all the same. They accept a 1.125" od bearing, and they also can accept any of the live axle hubs that we sell (500 key hub, 375 key hub, DD Globe Hub, 500 Hex Hub). Of course, they have a 1.875" bolt circle.
I will update our website so that people can see CAD pics and download CAD models. Hopefully, I will do this soon.
Andy B.
22-07-2008 21:25
Madison
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
Awesome, Andy.
You know that we're good for a few 4" wheels.
22-07-2008 21:32
s_forbes
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
Thanks for the info, it looks it will be another awesome product. I especially like the ability to make them wider with pvc pipe, very clever.
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Originally Posted by Andy Baker
Hopefully, these treads will not need a rivet at each end of the tread, but we shall see once testing begins.
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22-07-2008 21:45
Andy Baker
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by s_forbes
Thanks for the info, it looks it will be another awesome product. I especially like the ability to make them wider with pvc pipe, very clever.
If they're being molded, couldn't they be made with some sort of texture under the lip to better grip the tread? Just a thought, may be unnecessary. |
I forgot to mention the name for this product:
Plaction Wheel
(plastic + traction = plaction)
Andy.
22-07-2008 22:12
Billfred
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
One thing I noticed at the table: the wedgetop tread sitting out looked appreciably thinner than the stuff we've used in the past from McMaster-Carr. Is it from a different source? Would the McMaster belting still fit? I suppose it's a moot point for us, since it took a year and a half (and some 25 competition matches at two events) to throw a single tread on our much-loved (and, admittedly, much-abused) 2007 robot, but you never know when you'll need a new tread in the middle of nowhere*.
*Or, as I found out while trying to find a 3/16" rivet and rivet tool at Brunswick Eruption last year, in the middle of New Jersey! 
22-07-2008 22:33
=Martin=Taylor=
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by M. Krass
Awesome, Andy.
You know that we're good for a few 4" wheels. |
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Originally Posted by Andy Baker
The 4" and 6" sized wheels are designed so that PVC pipe can be sandwiched between the two halves in order to make the wheel wider. This is our design theory, and has not been tested yet. The 4" wheel is designed to accept 3" PVC (od = 3.5") and the 6" wheel is designed to accept 5" PVC (od = 5.56) in order to create wider wheels. I suppose that someone could make a 12" wide wheel (or whatever size), if all works out as planned.
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$24 > $10 hmmmm…. Maybe they won’t be in the kit….
22-07-2008 23:29
Cory
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by s_forbes
Thanks for the info, it looks it will be another awesome product. I especially like the ability to make them wider with pvc pipe, very clever.
If they're being molded, couldn't they be made with some sort of texture under the lip to better grip the tread? Just a thought, may be unnecessary. |
As long as you cut the tread to the correct length and width (ie: no bunching/peaking/whatever you want to call it at the ends), it should retain itself just fine.
23-07-2008 01:24
Travis Covington
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by Cory
We've run some of our wheels without riveting the ends before.
As long as you cut the tread to the correct length and width (ie: no bunching/peaking/whatever you want to call it at the ends), it should retain itself just fine. |
I'm sure Andy will keep us updated though.
As far as the wheels themselves go, I would most definitely purchase a few sets of the 4" wheels at these prices. I'd love to be able to avoid machining the aluminum equivalent, if these hold up just as well. Looks very promising!
23-07-2008 01:30
Cory
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
I should clarify. Like Travis, I wouldn't want to run my wheels without rivets. I was illustrating that it is possible to do so, if you so desired.
23-07-2008 21:11
nahstobor
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
hmm looks like the wheels team 612 made in '08 
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img...1fc0a6ab_l.jpg
Sorry this is the best picture I could find of them. Right now we are currently working on improving the design of our '08 wheel. 
28-07-2008 18:06
robostangs548
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
Hmmmm, those look fairly cost effective.... I like it....
28-07-2008 20:23
Greg Needel
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by nahstobor
hmm looks like the wheels team 612 made in '08
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/img...1fc0a6ab_l.jpg Sorry this is the best picture I could find of them. Right now we are currently working on improving the design of our '08 wheel. |
28-07-2008 20:26
NoahTheBoa
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by Greg Needel
Am I missing something? How do they look the same? Yours our obviously made from machined aluminum while these new wheels are plastic. I guess I don't see the connection.
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28-07-2008 20:56
Cory
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by Greg Needel
Am I missing something? How do they look the same? Yours our obviously made from machined aluminum while these new wheels are plastic. I guess I don't see the connection.
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Originally Posted by NoahTheBoa
I think he must be talking about how the tread is attached, clamped between the two halves of the wheel. But I can't really tell much from that picture.
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29-07-2008 09:26
JesseK
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
Our mentors are finalizing the '08 season recap in order to present it to new recruits next month. One of our conclusions is that we will probably go with the simplest 4" wheels we can find in '09. 6" are doable though.
12-08-2008 13:35
nahstobor
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
Sorry I don't have any better pictures of our old wheel. Our wheel is made from two pieces of Lexan bolted together along with our pulley assembly. We made our wheels on a CNC.
13-08-2008 17:12
Andy Baker
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by Andy Baker
Plaction Wheel
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For a limted time, we have a special offer. For those eager folks who want to test these new wheels at an 2008 off-season FRC event, we are offering them at 50% off until September 8th. With this discount, we only ask for some feedback (via email) regarding how these wheels performed at your competition. If you choose to order these and get a discount, just let us know which event you are participating in when you order the wheels.
We really like this wheel. In order to change treads, you just need to back off the 6 perimeter screws about 1/8", put in a new tread, and then tighten the screws back up.
Sincerely,
Andy Baker
13-08-2008 17:35
IndySam
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by Andy Baker
The 6" Plaction Wheels are now available for purchasing.
For a limted time, we have a special offer. For those eager folks who want to test these new wheels at an 2008 off-season FRC event, we are offering them at 50% off until September 8th. With this discount, we only ask for some feedback (via email) regarding how these wheels performed at your competition. If you choose to order these and get a discount, just let us know which event you are participating in when you order the wheels. We really like this wheel. In order to change treads, you just need to back off the 6 perimeter screws about 1/8", put in a new tread, and then tighten the screws back up. Sincerely, Andy Baker |
13-08-2008 19:05
Billfred
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by Andy Baker
We really like this wheel. In order to change treads, you just need to back off the 6 perimeter screws about 1/8", put in a new tread, and then tighten the screws back up.
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14-08-2008 07:43
camtunkpa
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
I just ordered a set of these for 222. Any Mid-Atlantic teams will be able to check them out on our bot at Duel on the Delaware, Ramp Riot and Brunswick Eruption.
14-08-2008 22:10
IndySam
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
Whoooo, just got my wheels from AM!
Sometimes it's cool to live in Indiana.
15-08-2008 14:45
JesseK
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
One thing I like about these wheels is how clean they should be regarding chains. It appears that a 33-tooth #25 sprocket can be mounted flush against the wheel without chain interference (side to side against the tread as well as hitting the wheel around the sprocket), can anyone confirm?
19-08-2008 08:05
camtunkpa
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
I just got our wheels yesterday and they look great! We'll hafta wait and see how they hold up, but I'm not very worried about that. The wheels seem pretty robust. I really like that we aren't going to have to make up spacers to mount sprockets. I'll give some more information as soon as these end up on our bot.
01-10-2008 14:47
sdcantrell56
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
Any update on these? How are they holding up? Does the tread stay on without rivets? Also will the 4" version come out before next season?
01-10-2008 15:38
Andy Baker
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by sdcantrell56
Any update on these? How are they holding up? Does the tread stay on without rivets? Also will the 4" version come out before next season?
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More data is needed to make a conclusive decision, though.
As for the 4" version of this wheel, we will not be making these until next summer.
Sincerely,
Andy
01-10-2008 16:34
AdamHeard
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by Andy Baker
We just heard some preliminary results from the Mission Mayhem competition: the treads are staying on without rivets if the width of the tread is right at 1"
More data is needed to make a conclusive decision, though. As for the 4" version of this wheel, we will not be making these until next summer. Sincerely, Andy |
01-10-2008 16:49
Lowfategg
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by AdamHeard
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww........ The 4" wheels were what I was so excited about
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01-10-2008 16:58
sdcantrell56
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
thats good to hear that the tread retention is working. Although it is a monstrous bummer that the 4" version won't be ready. That's the size that we would most likely be shooting for. I guess custom wheels it is.
01-10-2008 19:36
AdamHeard
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by Andy Baker
We just heard some preliminary results from the Mission Mayhem competition: the treads are staying on without rivets if the width of the tread is right at 1"
More data is needed to make a conclusive decision, though. As for the 4" version of this wheel, we will not be making these until next summer. Sincerely, Andy |
Just curious.
08-10-2008 02:55
Vikesrock
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by AdamHeard
The tread stayed on, but is there any way of testing whether it spun separately/slipped on the wheel itself under high loads?
Just curious. |
EDIT: I just realized that this question may not be asking how to actually perform the test but rather if someone has or could perform the test. If it is the latter, ignore my comment.
08-10-2008 21:36
DarkFlame145
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
Looks nice, I hope they will work just as well as the IFI high traction, which i really liked
08-10-2008 22:22
Andy Baker
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by DarkFlame145
Bacon used a pair at Mission Mayhem and the tread kept falling out (couldn't cut the tread 100% right) and the lip that holds the tread in broke in 2 places on one side.
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Andy B.
09-10-2008 00:19
AdamHeard
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by Vikesrock
Make a mark across the tread and wheel with a Sharpie? This is obviously not the most precise of methods as it will not be able to determine how much slipping occurs if it is greater than 360 degrees, but it would be a start at least.
EDIT: I just realized that this question may not be asking how to actually perform the test but rather if someone has or could perform the test. If it is the latter, ignore my comment. |
What I meant is can someone who has these wheels perform such a test.
09-10-2008 00:38
IndySam
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by AdamHeard
Terribly worded on my part....
What I meant is can someone who has these wheels perform such a test. |
If a failure is going to happen it will be the tread coming off not spinning.
We have one tread cut just a couple mm's short and my guess is that that wheel will more than likely fail. The others that have no gaps between the ends seam very secure.
We will see.
09-10-2008 00:45
AdamHeard
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by IndySam
We will put these wheels to the test Saturday morning but having these wheels in my hand I can tell you there is no way the tread will spin on the wheel. The tread is gripped tightly on the sides.
If a failure is going to happen it will be the tread coming off not spinning. We have one tread cut just a couple mm's short and my guess is that that wheel will more than likely fail. The others that have no gaps between the ends seam very secure. We will see. |
09-10-2008 21:44
Alan Anderson
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
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Originally Posted by IndySam
The others that have no gaps between the ends seam very secure.
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10-12-2008 17:30
Bob Steele
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
We were using this on our prototype and had slippage of the tread with the wheel. We were pushing very hard....low gear on a special transmission with two cims through a DeWalt transmission and running in the lowest gear.
The tread was wedged only and not riveted.
We were testing this on actual game carpet...looking at static friction and also pushing objects around the field.
this is a six wheel drive train with Kit wheels in the four outer positions and the plaction wheels on the direct driven motors in the middle. (West Coast drive train..)
The tread pulled up (sort of "bubbled" up...) at the point where it comes together ... we are using AM Wedgetop tread...
We are continuing to test.... and we just ordered 4 more plaction wheels to replace the kit wheels on the corners...
thanks
R
15-12-2008 12:59
camtunkpa
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
222 ran these wheels through three competitions and two sets of tread. After our first hybrid of trying to push the wall with the plaction wheels we decided to rivet the tread on. Since riveting we had nothing but good luck! Kudos to Andy and Mark for these wheels!
15-12-2008 16:35
IndySam
Re: pic: Spotted at IRI: New AM wheel (2)
We had the same trouble in testing. We just used a little epoxy on the ends of the tread and had zero trouble at the CAGE match.
Unless the GDC throws us a curve ball we will be using these wheels this season.
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