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 At every event I've seen this year, there has been at least one robot that left a part on the field. Even some of the robots have decided they don't want to play and this year and made a break for it in autonomous! :yikes: - ctt956 [more] |
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Jaguar prototype next to a Victor at NI Week.
Discussion
view entire thread
07-08-2008 14:12
Jonathan Norris
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
these things are big... fitting 8 of them on a robot is going to take up a lot more space then 8 victors. Seems like the whole control system is growing for next year. the fighting between mechanical and electrical for space on the robot will get even more intense. Watch out for flying batteries 
!
07-08-2008 14:21
Travis Hoffman
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
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Originally Posted by Jonathan Norris
Seems like the whole control system is growing for next year. the fighting between mechanical and electrical for space on the robot will get even more intense. Watch out for flying batteries
! |
Don't call it a comeback....
07-08-2008 14:30
Jonathan Norris
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
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Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman
If memory serves, I recall a Canadian team mounting their battery as a counterweight on their arm at the Canadian Regional many moons ago. I believe this was permitted by inspection, and they competed with this configuration.
Don't call it a comeback.... |
07-08-2008 14:39
sdcantrell56
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
Electronics boards are going to get a lot more interesting. I'm expecting to see a lot more vertically oriented layouts this coming year.
07-08-2008 15:01
Elgin Clock
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
I hope the folks writing the manual are reading this, & seeing our concerns in the size/weight difference being placed upon us with the introduction of the new control system.
I'm sure they realized this already, but if not, then right here in this post, I am officially documenting the first call to the GDC/Game & Robot potion of the 2009 Manual writing crew to boost up size & weight requirements for next year.
Not by much, but just a little bit.
I don't want to see double sized bots, but an extra few inches & pounds would be greatly appreciated!
Please? 
(Btw, anyone know a weight difference between just 1 Victor vs. 1 Jaguar?)
07-08-2008 15:11
AdamHeard
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
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Originally Posted by Elgin Clock
I hope the folks writing the manual are reading this, & seeing our concerns in the size/weight difference being placed upon us with the introduction of the new control system.
I'm sure they realized this already, but if not, then right here in this post, I am officially documenting the first call to the GDC/Game & Robot potion of the 2009 Manual writing crew to boost up size & weight requirements for next year. Not by much, but just a little bit. I don't want to see double sized bots, but an extra few inches & pounds would be greatly appreciated! Please? (Btw, anyone know a weight difference between just 1 Victor vs. 1 Jaguar?) |
07-08-2008 15:26
Rosiebotboss
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
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Originally Posted by Elgin Clock
I hope the folks writing the manual are reading this, & seeing our concerns in the size/weight difference being placed upon us with the introduction of the new control system.
I'm sure they realized this already, but if not, then right here in this post, I am officially documenting the first call to the GDC/Game & Robot potion of the 2009 Manual writing crew to boost up size & weight requirements for next year. Not by much, but just a little bit. I don't want to see double sized bots, but an extra few inches & pounds would be greatly appreciated! Please? (Btw, anyone know a weight difference between just 1 Victor vs. 1 Jaguar?) |
07-08-2008 15:32
Travis Hoffman
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
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Originally Posted by Rosiebotboss
The problem with increasing size and weight restrictions is that OSHA regs will get exceeded for safely picking up an object by 2 people and also the size of it is pretty much standard for moving through a door.
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Just make the drive base taller to fit your new hardware - no more compact, elegant designs - BOX BOTS FOR EVERYONE!
07-08-2008 15:41
acdcfan259
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
The footprint of the Victor looks like it could fit over the fan part on the Jaguar.
07-08-2008 15:58
Alan Anderson
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
Instead of fitting the control system into the robot, it might become more of a priority to fit the robot around the control system. And with the expectation that teams should reuse their controller from year to year, mounting these things is likely to get radically different anyway.
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Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman
Just make the drive base taller to fit your new hardware - no more compact, elegant designs - BOX BOTS FOR EVERYONE!
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07-08-2008 15:59
JesseK
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
Whatever the size and weight, we'll survive. I for one will consider the Jaguar a victory if it works consistently without having to nail polish the PWM cable in.
07-08-2008 17:07
artdutra04
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
In other news, this will be the year of legitimate OMG XBOX HUGE!!1! jokes.
What I am most concerned about though, is why they apparently wasted so much time making an eye-candy case when they could have devoted that time to instead making it smaller. (Whether or not the case is square and boxy or more streamlined than a 1950s toaster makes no difference on its performance.) I would rather give up all the whiz-bang features of the Jaguar in all but a limited number of applications for the more practical, space-saving features of the Victors.
07-08-2008 17:31
ChuckDickerson
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
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Originally Posted by artdutra04
What I am most concerned about though, is why they apparently wasted so much time making an eye-candy case when they could have devoted that time to instead making it smaller. (Whether or not the case is square and boxy or more streamlined than a 1950s toaster makes no difference on its performance.)
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Maybe we will be allowed to remove the outer case for space saving reasons if we want to but under the "user beware" sort of rule.|
Originally Posted by artdutra04
I would rather give up all the whiz-bang features of the Jaguar in all but a limited number of applications for the more practical, space-saving features of the Victors.
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I think we should all just wait and see what happens between now an January. FIRST teams have a pretty good history of doing some amazing things within the limits they are given to work with. Whatever happens with the whole new control system including these new speed controllers will just be part of the limits we are given to work with. I suspect the pros will outweigh the cons but only time will tell.
07-08-2008 18:15
Akash Rastogi
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
I've seen pretty unique ways of mounting electronics this year such as creating hidden cavities for different parts or having systems mounted higher up on frames. It just presents another challenge that teams should be able to hurdle over pretty easily.
EG of cool electronics mount: team 1323
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/30011
07-08-2008 18:58
Alan Anderson
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
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Originally Posted by artdutra04
What I am most concerned about though, is why they apparently wasted so much time making an eye-candy case when they could have devoted that time to instead making it smaller...
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07-08-2008 21:18
pacoliketaco
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
in my opinion, the jaguar just doesn't look as nice as the victors. im sure that along with all other electronics this year, it will be much more accurate, so i guess that is a good thing. the size of this control system is really starting to worry me...
looking at the picture, it seems like we are getting new joysticks!
07-08-2008 21:47
Eugene Fang
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
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Originally Posted by pacoliketaco
in my opinion, the jaguar just doesn't look as nice as the victors. im sure that along with all other electronics this year, it will be much more accurate, so i guess that is a good thing. the size of this control system is really starting to worry me...
looking at the picture, it seems like we are getting new joysticks! |
07-08-2008 21:48
R.C.
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
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Originally Posted by lilstogi11
I've seen pretty unique ways of mounting electronics this year such as creating hidden cavities for different parts or having systems mounted higher up on frames. It just presents another challenge that teams should be able to hurdle over pretty easily.
EG of cool electronics mount: team 1323 http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/30011 |
07-08-2008 23:05
Herodotus
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
Our electrician this past year fit all of the electronics into slightly less than a square foot of space. Definitely will not happen next year. 
Really though, I hope that FIRST will simply allow us more options next year. Allow people to use either these new ones or the old victors.
Also, I don't know if this has been posted anywhere, but is there a price on these yet? Victors can be expensive enough. I can't see these being cheaper.
07-08-2008 23:41
roboticWanderor
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
Honestly, I really like the use of these new speed controllers, along with the rest of the new control system. why?
- Requires no extra wiring of the fan, eliminating the risk that it will overheat due to bad crimps.
- If you notice, the mounting holes are symmetrical allowing them to be mounted back to back on either side of a surface, taking the space vertical instead of horizontal, something that the victors did not do.
- The built in limit switch control, as well as the promise for more possibilities in the future, such as CAM and integrated PID loops make this a simple solution for teams with low programming resources
That is just the new jaguar speed controller. The hardware of the new control and electronics system also provides a lot more benefits such as:
- The new breaker board unifies the breaker panels and distribution blocks into one board, with significantly better terminals than previous distribution blocks.
- One of the cRIO modules allows for high voltage digital I/O, in other words: replaces the need for a array of spikes to actuate pneumatic solenoids, in one simple module on the controller.
a separate "digital sidecar" plugged into a cRIO module serves as the lower voltage digital IO hub, centralizing all of your PWM cables away from the controller, allowing for the quick removal of the controller without worrying about rewiring. also, this hub can be placed closer to your speed controllers and other I/O as to limit the mess of PWM cables on the robot.
- All of the new electronics components are significantly more rugged, and designed for the life of a FIRST robot, not another application.
does not get you giddy about the benefits of the new system?
**As for the space consumption involved, yes the parts are bigger, but with a little creativity, some engineering and some skill, i know we can work around it, it's simply another design constraint, we're good at those, right?
07-08-2008 23:43
R.C.
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
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Originally Posted by roboticWanderor
Honestly, I really like the use of these new speed controllers, along with the rest of the new control system. why?
- Requires no extra wiring of the fan, eliminating the risk that it will overheat due to bad crimps. - If you notice, the mounting holes are symmetrical allowing them to be mounted back to back on either side of a surface, taking the space vertical instead of horizontal, something that the victors did not do. - The built in limit switch control, as well as the promise for more possibilities in the future, such as CAM and integrated PID loops make this a simple solution for teams with low programming resources That is just the new jaguar speed controller. The hardware of the new control and electronics system also provides a lot more benefits such as: - The new breaker board unifies the breaker panels and distribution blocks into one board, with significantly better terminals than previous distribution blocks. - One of the cRIO modules allows for high voltage digital I/O, in other words: replaces the need for a array of spikes to actuate pneumatic solenoids, in one simple module on the controller. a separate "digital sidecar" plugged into a cRIO module serves as the lower voltage digital IO hub, centralizing all of your PWM cables away from the controller, allowing for the quick removal of the controller without worrying about rewiring. also, this hub can be placed closer to your speed controllers and other I/O as to limit the mess of PWM cables on the robot. - All of the new electronics components are significantly more rugged, and designed for the life of a FIRST robot, not another application. does not get you giddy about the benefits of the new system? |
07-08-2008 23:52
yarb65
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
There was talk in this thread about flying batteries. Happened to us,1662, in 06.
09-08-2008 14:42
samir13k
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
I'm scared!
Our mechanical team is not going to be too happy about this!
I wonder if you are allowed to have two seperated electrical panels? One for Jaguars, and the other for the rest!
10-08-2008 15:22
ATannahill
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
you can, we split our victors and spike for overdrive.
10-08-2008 17:56
R.C.
Re: pic: Jaguar next to Victor
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Originally Posted by rtfgnow
you can, we split our victors and spike for overdrive.
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