19-11-2008 13:37

Zflash

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

The motors in the diagram do not look like the CIMs, at least from what I can tell. Everything else looks like kit items. Could this mean that we are getting some other type of motors other than the CIM. Or can am I just seeing things.

19-11-2008 13:40

Andrew Schreiber

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Even if they aren't I wouldn't read too much into it. Looking at this the pictures do not appear to be exactly what we have/will receive.

19-11-2008 15:43

Zflash

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Having done this as long as I have I know not to read into things too much. It is merely an observation that everything else in the picture is either a new kit item or an old one. The motor pictured is the only oddball in my view. However it looks to be the same size with a shorter output shaft. Im sure if it is different the characteristics are close enough to not make a fuss.

19-11-2008 15:50

waialua359

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Thanks Mark.
Always posting good informative stuff!

19-11-2008 16:25

yara92

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Great jodonb Thanks Mark.
Mark what advice can we give to rocky teams.
mohamed team 1946

19-11-2008 16:26

Alan Anderson

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

The "digital" sensors look somewhat odd to me as well.

19-11-2008 16:41

billbo911

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Hand has five digits. So,..... five digital sensors???

19-11-2008 17:08

Kingofl337

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

The cRio isn't sporting the normal connections that FIRST will be using this year.

19-11-2008 17:17

Mark McLeod

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

At least we get a choice of a digital palm reader or an analog palm reader.

This year's game is to predict what next year's game will be by robotic fortune teller.

19-11-2008 17:37

robostangs548

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

ooooooo, fancy! Almost like a Lego direction map!

19-11-2008 17:52

DMetalKong

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Any reason why there are two digital sidecars in the picture?

19-11-2008 17:55

ATannahill

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

We get two.

19-11-2008 18:09

wilsonmw04

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

I don't want to be an alarmist but, take a look at the graphic of the motors the controllers are attached to. Those don't look like the CIM's we've used in the past do they?

19-11-2008 18:26

Greg Needel

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Sometimes it is a good idea to read a thread before you post. That observation was already made.

19-11-2008 18:34

wilsonmw04

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

why, so it has.

20-11-2008 16:31

Ryan Dognaux

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

This kind of layout diagram will be incredibly helpful to all teams this year, assuming there aren't any errors / typos on it or anything. Looking forward to getting our hands on the new control system / motors apparently...

21-11-2008 00:45

cbale2000

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

It's possible whoever made the diagram was just using some kind of stock motor image so as to not give any hints, even the pictures of the battery and some of the pneumatic components look a bit different than what we're used to, and as it has been pointed out already, the cRIO is not shown in the configuration FIRST uses either.


One things for sure though, FIRST certainly isn't making this year easy with all these new components to fit in to already limited spaces. I thought new technology was supposed to be getting smaller (Like cell phones and computer chips) guess that wouldn't be as fun though would it?

21-11-2008 01:07

R.C.

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Bill did mention a change in the some of the usual KOP Parts. Maybe the CIMS are it???

21-11-2008 01:27

billbo911

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

We do know one this for certain. The motors will be 12vdc brushed motors.

21-11-2008 01:34

R.C.

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

True, maybe we might still have the cims and maybe they included more powerful motors. I think in 07 and 06 they allowed the big 3 inch CIMS (I AM NOT SAYING THE 3 INCH CIMS WERE MORE POWERFUL). Since the power distro block supports bigger and more powerful motors. WHO KNOWS

21-11-2008 07:29

Zflash

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

I agree that anything is possible. This was just a simple observation that I made and decided to see if anyone would agree or might know a little more if they had the actual diagram in front of them. If we get the same CIM motor then great if not, Im sure it will be a comprable motor. After all that is pretty much a staple of just about every drive train in FIRST today obviously not all but most.

21-11-2008 08:46

Andrew Schreiber

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Wouldn't it be just like FIRST to change that? Make us all redesign everything from scratch? Not saying they would do this but for some reason they come across as having a mild sadistic streak to them. (Sadistic may not be the best word here) I mean, they could come out on January 3rd and basically say, we told you not to design anything, or buy anything, because we CIM motors are no longer allowed. I could see them doing it. Frankly if it werent for the HUGE learning curve I expected them to do it with this new control system. It is actually beneficial to them to change things up, they want creativity and innovation, but they also want to see us say, "Oh Jeez, how are we ever going to do this?" On the other hand, like most major changes, it benefits larger more financially supported teams so FIRST may not.

Just my $.02

21-11-2008 08:53

Zflash

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

I think that if they do then the new motors will be easily adaptable to the AndyMark products. I'm sure FIRST recognizes what a great sservice that company provides to the community and would not jeopardize that. And if they can be adapted to AM products then I'm sure they could be adapted to other custom gearboxes as well. Of course on January 3rd this whole conversation could have been for nothing because we may get the CIM motors again. That is what makes Kickoff so exciting you just don't know what to expect.

21-11-2008 09:49

Doug G

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

The picture they used came from this site...

http://www.optms.net/images/DC_Motor-1-b.jpg

So hopefully it is just a generic pic they used and we still get those CIMs!!

21-11-2008 10:04

rees2001

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Did you do a google image search for DC motor & find this also? If you did you would find this is the most "FIRST-like" motor image they could have used.

21-11-2008 10:53

Zflash

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

If you do a google image search for "CIM Motor" you find the exact CIM motor that we get in the kit so they could have used an image of an exact CIM motor had they wanted to however the one pictured in this post looks like a CIM with a different casing with a slightly shorter output shaft. So I am not too worried about it.

21-11-2008 15:09

spc295

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Isn't it interesting how FIRST always - without fail gives us just enough rope to hang oureselves with?

21-11-2008 15:14

Andrew Schreiber

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

We are/are going into engineering and/or teaching give us 3 inches of rope and we would try to figure out how to hang ourselves with it. Basically, we are reading WAY too much into it.

21-11-2008 18:45

Gaurav27

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Does the cRIO have any static protection? Does anyone know?
I apologize, if this question has come up and has been answered before in another thread.
Just wanted to clarify.

21-11-2008 19:42

=Martin=Taylor=

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Yes, and that company also makes DC motors. This is suposed to comfort me how?

Although I'd love to see FIRST go to 24v and get some mags in the kit.

21-11-2008 20:08

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Mag motors would definitely be fun to play with.... They'd have to keep bumpers as mandatory though, I don't think many rookie teams would like their kitbot rammed by a welded chassis powered by Mags. Those things are pretty strong.

21-11-2008 21:04

AdamHeard

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

If FIRST does switch out the "drive" motors, I doubt they'll be more powerful than the current set up. Teams have already demonstrated they can go plenty fast and push plenty hard with the current power available, giving them more would not only waste more battery, but also probably shift the games to even more bashing.

21-11-2008 21:50

Booksy

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

mmmmmmmm, bashing.......

21-11-2008 22:22

R.C.

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

I was thinking more powerful or more motors that used 40 amps because the maxi had 4 and the new block has 8, but that is just an observation.

22-11-2008 14:52

Doug G

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

Yes...
http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&hl=en&q=dc+motor

It's the 12th pic.

Yes. But why not throw in a pic of a CIM motor - just as easily searched!!

23-11-2008 11:39

rees2001

Re: pic: 2009 Control System Layout

I just realized I am starting to use FIRST HQ "reasoning".

Why search for what you are looking for when you can search for something similar but different enough to not have any real point.