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This is our logo.
Discussion
view entire thread
31-01-2009 16:44
Travis Hoffman
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by Team2883
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Notre Dame should be proud.
31-01-2009 19:14
lenny8
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
I applaud your creative name. this tickles me 
31-01-2009 19:26
JaneYoung
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
Here are a couple of thoughts from a mentor whose entire family works at a family-owned feed and milling company here in the Austin area.
This is a stereotype that I have worked 'against' for many years regarding involving the community, the businesses, and the families/students in FIRST Robotics.
The image is a stereotype and the name is a stereotype. How is that going to play during recruitment? How is that going to play when interacting with teams from around the world, on a global playing field? How is that going to play during the scholarship application process for colleges and universities?
A redneck is a redneck. A redneck image is a redneck image. I have tremendous respect for farmers and ranchers and their impact on communities and beyond. This image and name is one that is limiting rather than providing opportunities for unlimited potential. It is a caricature.
As I said, my family is steeped in the community of farmers, ranchers, and good hard-working people. Just the type that will thrive on an FRC team. Don't let the name or the image thwart that possibility.
.02
Jane
31-01-2009 19:29
amariealbrecht
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
I really like this! Its amazing...first logo on the hat would make it so much better!
Way to go and good luck this season!
31-01-2009 19:40
Team2883
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by JaneYoung
Here are a couple of thoughts from a mentor whose entire family works at a family-owned feed and milling company here in the Austin area.
.02 Jane |
31-01-2009 19:47
cziggy343
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by JaneYoung
This is a stereotype that I have worked 'against' for many years regarding involving the community, the businesses, and the families/students in FIRST Robotics.
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31-01-2009 19:52
JaneYoung
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by Team2883
Our team is based in rural minnesota 5 miles from the canadian border...70% of the land around us is farmland
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And, this image has reached beyond the rural land and into the FRC community. The FRC community is made up of many teams from many places. Names certainly can reflect where the team's roots are, that is true. Just make sure the team image is one that girls, educators, administrators, sponsors, and other communities rich with diversity, will understand, accept, and support.
Stereotypes are a challenge in today's society without helping to cultivate them. That is all that I am saying.
Jane
31-01-2009 19:54
Team2883
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by cziggy343
i dont understand how this is any different from using any other group of people as mascots. what about the Florida State Seminoles? the University of Illinois Fighting Illini? any of the thousands of high schools with the mascot of "the warriors?" i dont really see much of a difference from that... only that its slightly more entertaining.
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31-01-2009 19:56
cziggy343
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by Team2883
Our high school mascot is actually the warriors.....
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31-01-2009 20:07
Chris Fultz
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
Regardless of the opinions expressed above -
you have most likely violated a copyright / trademark or other protection -unless you received Notre Dame's approval to modify and use their mascot. ?
31-01-2009 20:11
JaneYoung
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
Well, let's explore this just a little further and then I will hush.
If one buys into the vision of helping to change the culture, bringing science and technology and its value/importance to light in our schools and communities - that is a tall order for an FRC team that is interested in building robots and competing. If a school has sports teams and mascots and traditionally promotes those teams, their history, and their value to the community - is that changing the culture or - is that status quo as old as the hills? The names/logos/mission statements and activities that FRC teams brand themselves with can help their communities develop and change or they can help them remain the same, keeping recognition of science and technology in shadow rather than in the light.
Rednecks, I do not mean to pick on you in any way - I am just offering a different perspective and perhaps some food for thought.
Jane
Edit: I was writing while Chris posted. This comment is not about the copyright post.
31-01-2009 21:59
Karthik
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
I find it quite ironic that we're discussing the appropriateness of names in regards to stereotyping and imagery on a website named ChiefDelphi...
31-01-2009 23:28
Johnny
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
I happen to agree with Jane. I don't really believe that the word "redneck" is giving off the proper aura. I would consider it a deragatory term. Using a deragatory term such as this also opens up other terms that are widely used, but considered more offensive, to be up for use with such the same agruments as this one. As a mexican, I'm really against stereotypical terms such as "beaner" and can relate to what Jane has said.
Does this name meet FIRST rules? It can be offensive to some people as has been proven so far.
Just a thought, Why not something like The Fighting Farmers or The Rural Agitators. lol
01-02-2009 00:16
JasonV
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
I am sure that they were not attempting to offend anyone with their name, people can find fault in anything if they read to much into it. It is just a joke about the fighting Irish and a good one, I want a shirt with that logo.
01-02-2009 01:10
Herodotus
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
I don't understand how redneck is an offensive name. Many people who are "rednecks" happily refer to themselves as such(I can be a bit of one sometimes) and wear it as a badge of honor. It's true that it is a stereotype, but not all stereotypes are bad. Stereotypes are a very human development that allows people to create categories and groups in their minds, to draw associations and make connections between people.
The problem is when those stereotypes are negative and insulting.
01-02-2009 08:06
colin340
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
i see Jane's point
think about putting the name in a collage application essay what if the person reading it see it as a derogatory term
also if students are on a team of "rednecks" are they going to even think collage is for them??
don't let cd decide if it right, talk to your team about are concerns and take a vote
01-02-2009 10:38
Team2883
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
Speaking on behalf of Team 2883 we will be revisiting our logo and our name on Monday. If we have offended anyone we apologize it was not the intent of our team. At this time all activity and association of the Redneck will cease. We would like to mention that we do have several views on it but will take the active stand that if you (our peers) find it offensive it should be abolished. We would also like to thank the people who stood up and tried to plead our case. But as can be seen some people's ability to over analyze information makes them a threat to the ability to expand outside of stereotypes and break down barriers as well. A intelligent "Redneck" with the sophistication and ability to build a technologically advanced robot and harvest the ideas to possible future invention or innovations that could change the world does not seem to be slander or negative impacting to farmers or "rednecks".
Thank-you
JUST
Team 2883
01-02-2009 14:02
ebarker
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
The thread is getting terminated before I got a chance to toot my horn but I'm gonna toot anyway.
To be very blunt, I don't like this particular image, name, or characterization. The image alone is loaded with strong negative stereotypes before the verbage is even added.
This is from someone with a lot of experience dealing with the types associated the image. And I am from a long family line of agrarian types that are not associated with r'necks.
Having said all of that I would like to suggest an alternative that could be very positive yet retain where you may be trying to go.
There is a culturally iconic painting that has reached the cultural status of DaVinci's Mona Lisa and is continuing to have a long reaching effect on American Art and Culture.
It is called 'American Gothic'. It is a "a depiction of steadfast American pioneer spirit" as represented by sturdy American farmers.
Think about it and maybe you can find some good ideas. Start by looking at the variations on the painting.
the original
a version
more interesting versions
just go to images.google.com and search on "american gothic"
good luck
01-02-2009 15:22
Meredith Novak
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
This thread looks like a rookie team got bullied out of using a name they chose and a logo they worked hard to design. It is clever, funny, and obviously was intended as a humorous (if un-PC, who cares?) salute to their region. While it may not be the team image some of the rest of us would embrace, there are plenty of those in FIRST already. Team 2883's gracious behavior can serve as an example to all of us - no matter what their name is. I look forward to seeing them shine in the years to come
01-02-2009 16:16
Daniel_LaFleur
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by JaneYoung
Well, let's explore this just a little further and then I will hush.
If one buys into the vision of helping to change the culture, bringing science and technology and its value/importance to light in our schools and communities - that is a tall order for an FRC team that is interested in building robots and competing. If a school has sports teams and mascots and traditionally promotes those teams, their history, and their value to the community - is that changing the culture or - is that status quo as old as the hills? The names/logos/mission statements and activities that FRC teams brand themselves with can help their communities develop and change or they can help them remain the same, keeping recognition of science and technology in shadow rather than in the light. Rednecks, I do not mean to pick on you in any way - I am just offering a different perspective and perhaps some food for thought. Jane Edit: I was writing while Chris posted. This comment is not about the copyright post. |
You and I usually agree on things, but in this case I have to disagree with you.
FIRST is about changing culture. How can we change culture if we (in this case the social stigma of the word 'Redneck') avoid the topics that are truely divisive in this society? Isn't it better to challange the stereotype rather than ignore / avoid it? It seems to me that if these 'Rednecks' can built robots, doesn't that effectively challenge society's stereotype ?
JMHO
01-02-2009 16:37
EricH
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
I have noticed that some "rednecks" love to be called that. It may be that they like to embrace the stereotype..
Also, without them, where would we be? It's the farmers, ranchers, "rednecks" and people like them that make America what it is.
It's like the "dumb blonde" stereotype. Some people hate it. Tell a "dumb blonde" joke around one of my cousins and you're in trouble. But others love it. Where you want to go with that is up to you.
To the OP: Look at your team image. If you, as a team, want to incorporate "redneck" into your team image, go for it. Don't let those that don't like the term dissuade you. I can see some interesting mottos/logos if you continue. You could easily run with this pretty thoroughly.
| A intelligent "Redneck" with the sophistication and ability to build a technologically advanced robot and harvest the ideas to possible future invention or innovations that could change the world does not seem to be slander or negative impacting to farmers or "rednecks". |
01-02-2009 16:42
JaneYoung
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur
Jane,
You and I usually agree on things, but in this case I have to disagree with you. FIRST is about changing culture. How can we change culture if we (in this case the social stigma of the word 'Redneck') avoid the topics that are truely divisive in this society? Isn't it better to challange the stereotype rather than ignore / avoid it? It seems to me that if these 'Rednecks' can built robots, doesn't that effectively challenge society's stereotype ? JMHO |
This is what Wikipedia says about rednecks. I also googled 'redneck' and it shows photos that fit the stereotypical label.
If it seemed that I bullied a rookie team into thinking about their image/name and its potential impact, I apologize to the team and to the readers. That was not the purpose or goal of my posts in this thread; it was to provide food for thought.
Jane
01-02-2009 17:02
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
Ah, the time old "could be offensive team name" debate. As is my style, this will be harsh. I'm not here to make friends or to play nice, that's for real life, not the internet. Instead, here's an honest opinion:
What gives an obscenity its power? What is it about a four letter word being uttered that makes some people gasp? Nothing more than the lack of use. Colorful language keeps its power when it is reserved for only special circumstances, such as an angry moment.
The same applies here. A term for a racial, ethnic, or social group only holds power in a derogatory sense. If the term "redneck" is put on a fun loving team's logo, it isn't intended to be offensive. If it's said over the shoulder in a slightly muted voice, with the intent of belittling another, THEN it becomes an issue.
So here's my blunt opinion in a nutshell: If you're offended by the word being used by a fun loving group, one who promotes nothing but good, you're part of the problem that you yourself are suffering from. So suck it up, grow a spine. This is harsh, but we live in a harsh world. The more one stigmatizes the word, and the more one draws it out of context to make it offensive, the larger the problem gets. The very problem of cursing can be removed by simply making the word no longer taboo. Desensitize yourself to the terms, and you'll be able to move on and focus on things that actually matter.
01-02-2009 17:22
JackN
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
I think that this is a clever and funny name. I think the only problem in my mind is that it violate some kind of copyright law (I don't know I am not a lawyer). I would rather see something creative like The Fighting Rednecks than say The RoboDogs, RoboCats, or Robo-insert random animal. If a team wants to celebrate their background coming from a "Redneck" town, let them. Team 2883 is not trying to insult or abuse people, they are trying to be creative and to be clever, I say go for it.
01-02-2009 17:22
ebarker
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
I don't want to insult or inflame, but....
FIRST is about changing culture. What culture do we want to change ? The attitudes of people toward scientists and engineers ? or the attitudes of people toward rednecks ?
It seems to me we are picking the wrong fight !!
I grew up in South Carolina, you know, the people that seceded. I then lived in the Washington DC area.
When I lived in that area and had discussions with the folks around town, in my experience, almost without exception the references made to 'those rednecks' were derisive and commonly prejudicial, without merit to the situation being discussed.
The wiki is substantially correct in its history and etymology. The fact that a group of people refers to themselves as 'R' is IMHO not different than another group people that refer to themselves as 'N'.
It doesn't make it correct or proper of suitable for good company. Call me stuffy and uptight but that is the way I see it.
Having said all of that - Jeff Foxworthy et. al. has done more to change the popular definition of redneck than the previous 300 years of history.
Jeff Foxworthy has also clearly stated that his definition of redneck is substantially departed from socio economic class occupation stereotypes and more aligned around specific behavioral pathologies. Hence the California urban redneck, and others.
Jeff Foxworthy's definition is really funny. The prior historical definition is substantially less entertaining.
If the team chooses to keep the redneck monicker they are certainly free to do so but I'll submit that it could run into resistance in the other sub-cultures that exist across the country.
Best Regards and Good Luck.
edit: added a comment.
I'm not beating up the team, just the idea. Tossing around ideas and having a lively debate is a wonderful thing. I've been to Minnesota. It is a beautiful state with wonderful people. I'm sure they have plenty more opportunities to come up with great ideas. I'm just speaking from my life experience as a southerner that I'd advise against the redneck course.
next edit:
Here is how I'd expect the sponsor fundraising meeting to go, really funny. the sales pitch for the team
01-02-2009 20:35
joshsmithers
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
Back in 07, when our team was re-naming ourselves, I proposed the team name "Hick Town Thunder." (It would be awesome, designing our logo to mimic T3's...) But my idea was easily shot down by the same argument Jane has pushed. To this day, I do not understand how these similiar ideas are offensive to people, especially those who are not rednecks.
I like the logo. I support it because it is funny, clever, and eye-catching. I see nothing wrong with it and cannot understand why anyone would take offense to it, especially if you aren't a redneck. Therefore, the only people who are qualified to say whether this logo is offensive are rednecks. I really hope 2883 will have the guts and confidence to keep this their team name and logo.
01-02-2009 20:50
Daniel_LaFleur
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by joshsmithers
Back in 07, when our team was re-naming ourselves, I proposed the team name "Hick Town Thunder." (It would be awesome, designing our logo to mimic T3's...) But my idea was easily shot down by the same argument Jane has pushed. To this day, I do not understand how these similiar ideas are offensive to people, especially those who are not rednecks.
I like the logo. I support it because it is funny, clever, and eye-catching. I see nothing wrong with it and cannot understand why anyone would take offense to it, especially if you aren't a redneck. Therefore, the only people who are qualified to say whether this logo is offensive are rednecks. I really hope 2883 will have the guts and confidence to keep this their team name and logo. |
I am happy that you do not understand why the word 'Redneck' could be offensive, because that means that you have never had reason to be offended by, or be stygmatized as being, one.
We, as a people, need to rise above our biases and our societies biases if we are to grow as a people. Should this team choose this name they will have a lot of work ahead of them to change the culture. I doubt they've thought about that and it really is something they'll need to understand.
To the Fighting Rednecks, I wish you well ... for you are far braver than most of us here, should you stick with that name.
02-02-2009 14:00
Team2883
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
Hi, our team discussed today over this problem and we came to a conclusion. We decided we are going to change the team name to "F.R.E.D." and that we are going to modify our team logo a bit. Thanks for input on this. This is our final decision.
02-02-2009 14:51
EricH
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by Team2883
Hi, our team discussed today over this problem and we came to a conclusion. We decided we are going to change the team name to "F.R.E.D."
and that we are going to modify our team logo a bit. Thanks for input on this. This is our final decision. |
02-02-2009 14:55
TD78
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by EricH
So what does F.R.E.D. stand for?
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02-02-2009 15:18
Collin Fultz
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by Team2883
Hi, our team discussed today over this problem and we came to a conclusion. We decided we are going to change the team name to "F.R.E.D."
and that we are going to modify our team logo a bit. Thanks for input on this. This is our final decision. |
02-02-2009 16:33
lenny8
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by Team2883
Hi, our team discussed today over this problem and we came to a conclusion. We decided we are going to change the team name to "F.R.E.D."
and that we are going to modify our team logo a bit. Thanks for input on this. This is our final decision. |
02-02-2009 21:30
F.R.E.D.63
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
Im on that team. We all wanted to keep our name the way it was. Our teacher also didn't mind our name. However, as an FRC team we do not plan on changing our name for any of the next years to come. We decided that it would be a waste of time having this argument every year from now on, especially since the seniors would not have to deal with it.
That being said, about half our team consists of farmers. It was a farmer who thought of our original team name. We all supported it. I think it is petty for some people to try and bully us into changing our name. Congratulations, they got your wish. Our name was not meant to be offensive. People had to look pretty hard for it to be that way. People need to learn how to have fun instead of being so absolutely politically correct. I AM A REDNECK. PROUD TO BE SO.
p.s. we will be modifying our logo a bit so it does not infringe on any copyright laws, that argument actually had some merit to it.
02-02-2009 22:00
Karthik
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by Team2883
Hi, our team discussed today over this problem and we came to a conclusion. We decided we are going to change the team name to "F.R.E.D."
and that we are going to modify our team logo a bit. Thanks for input on this. This is our final decision. |
02-02-2009 22:01
JaneYoung
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by F.R.E.D.63
I think it is petty for some people to try and bully us into changing our name. Congratulations, they got your wish. Our name was not meant to be offensive. People had to look pretty hard for it to be that way. People need to learn how to have fun instead of being so absolutely politically correct.
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The members of the team who created this thread and have posted in this thread have posted with dignity and with respect. And with each post, your team has shown that you are very capable of handling any discussion regarding your team name and sharing who you are with the CD community. I wish FRC 2883, F.R.E.D. formerly known as The Fighting Rednecks, all the best in the 2009 season and in the seasons to come. Sincerely.
Jane
02-02-2009 22:06
NorviewsVeteran
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by F.R.E.D.63
Im on that team... I AM A REDNECK. PROUD TO BE SO.
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02-02-2009 22:24
Laaba 80
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by F.R.E.D.63
That being said, about half our team consists of farmers. It was a farmer who thought of our original team name. We all supported it. I think it is petty for some people to try and bully us into changing our name. Congratulations, they got your wish. Our name was not meant to be offensive. People had to look pretty hard for it to be that way. People need to learn how to have fun instead of being so absolutely politically correct. I AM A REDNECK. PROUD TO BE SO.
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Why do you feel bullied out of your name? If you felt it was not offensive why not keep it? Why would you change your decision because a few people disagreed with it? Dont blame those who may have disliked your name for your decision. Bottom line is anyone on a different team than you has absolutely no influence on your team. I find it petty for you to blame someone else for a decision that is up to your team. There was nothing wrong with presenting a way others could see your name. Did anyone flat out say that you cannot have that name?
Also Im not saying whether or not I liked the name, I just dont like your reaction when someone tries to HELP YOU.
02-02-2009 22:44
JVN
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by Karthik
Your name and logo may now be offensive to those with the name Fred. You may want to consider how unfairly stereotyped people named Fred have been in the past.
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02-02-2009 22:51
Akash Rastogi
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by JVN
We're worried we unfairly stereotype "wranglers". In order to be more correct 148 will from henceforth be known as the "RoboPeople".
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Wish you wouldn't have changed the name...after all, like you said, your team does have rednecks! Woot for hard working Americans!
02-02-2009 22:51
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by JVN
We're worried we unfairly stereotype "wranglers". In order to be more correct 148 will from henceforth be known as the "RoboPeople".
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lmao Wish you wouldn't have changed the name...after all, like you said, your team does have rednecks! Woot for hard working Americans! |
02-02-2009 22:51
Tom Schindler
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by JVN
Quote:
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While we're at it, let's all hold hands and sing kumbaya in this amazing utopia.
02-02-2009 22:53
NorviewsVeteran
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by CraigHickman
...I guess my team might be unfairly stereotyping Dragons. Guess it's time to shift to the 1595 Soap Dishes!
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02-02-2009 23:00
Meredith Novak
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
After 9-11, the Bomb Squad gave in to political correctness (and a desire not to be run from in public) and went to "BBS." Then we lost Baxter as our sponsor (first B gone)...so we went back to Bomb Squad all spelled out. PC lost out to rejection-of-profanity
FRED - you will always be the Fighting Rednecks to me!
03-02-2009 10:51
jgannon
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
Karthik, John, et al, I'm not a PC cop by any means, but I think you're missing the point, and making a legitimate conversation into something ridiculous.
I've never really considered the word "redneck" to be a slur; I typically file it alongside "geek"... terms used with pride by those on the inside, and with derision by those on the outside. Objectively, I'll agree that it is difficult to call it a broadly offensive term, and isn't inherently inappropriate as part of a team name.
That being said, even if you ignore the whole idea of rednecks being poor and uneducated, there are very negative connotations that some associate with the term, far darker than the image of a farmer watching NASCAR. For that reason, for the sake of not alienating potential community support, I believe that 2883 is very wise to reconsider.
The Confederate flag is an appropriate analogy. It is embraced as a symbol of cultural identity by a group of people, its meaning has changed over time, but it is still found by others to be offensive because of its history. Free speech is a wonderful and powerful thing, but I would be reluctant to slap a Confederate flag on my robot... not because I'm worried about hurting feelings, but because I'm concerned about how those hurt feelings would affect my team's bottom line. It's a calculated risk; Jeff Foxworthy has made millions off the term, but it is very legitimate to evaluate if you can reap the same payoff with a high school club, and that consideration shouldn't be raising anyone's hackles.
The discussion on loose usage of the word "Nazi" was discussed here two years ago, and the points made there are still valid. You aren't responsible for making sure you don't offend anyone, but you do bear the fruit from the offense you cause.
I know you guys are just trolling about offending wranglers, dragons, or people named Fred, but it's really not that hard to tell the difference in the perceptions of "redneck" compared to those terms, and the potential fallout. There are plenty of other places on the Internet for that kind of nonsense.
03-02-2009 11:10
Jared Russell
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by jgannon
You aren't responsible for making sure you don't offend anyone, but you do bear the fruit from the offense you cause.
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If you can live with a few vocal critics, then name your team whatever you want.
03-02-2009 11:46
lenny8
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
what i love about this tread is that we are going to the same thing. we now have to change our logo and think about our what we name our robot because people got offend last year because we named our robot the devils child. but we also will change our logo and be more careful about our robot name. but we will not change our team name.
and i really would have loved to see you guys name be the fighting rednecks at least for one regional since thats what you guys really wanted to be named.
03-02-2009 12:04
Rich Kressly
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
I smiled at the creativity when I first saw this logo. There are many times I also wish the world would not be so overly "PC" at times. However, I also wondered, before any of this discussion started, if a potential line may have been crossed here.
Practically, as a public school teacher for the past 15 years I will tell you that people in my profession get called into meetings for "improper" use of terms/language/images like this. I personally know of situations where employee discipline took place for what the individuals thought were innocent, funny, and well intentioned behavior.
Part of me absolutely understands where some are coming from here, but I've also come to realize from very up close examples that we as individuals don't get to decide what is, or may be, offensive to others.
(I do also wonder about the possible copyright issue here, but that's a separate topic...)
03-02-2009 13:00
Jonathan Norris
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by Karthik
I find it quite ironic that we're discussing the appropriateness of names in regards to stereotyping and imagery on a website named ChiefDelphi...
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Honestly guys don't change your name if you don't want to, there are people in FIRST who get a kick out of over-reacting to situations like this. But there are a lot more of us who don't care what your name is. Stop worrying about your name and have fun building your robot.
03-02-2009 15:26
ebarker
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
At the end of the day, I really don't care if what name is chosen. The team will make their decisions and live with the results, both positive and negative.
Where this runs off the rails for me is dragging all this Chief and wrangler stuff into the discussion.
For years a portrait of Chief Pontiac hung in GM dealerships, but no more. I'm not sure why but I always considered it a tribute to Chief Pontiac, not a racist insult.
I'm from the east coast and don't know any wranglers, but in my eyes hollywood has glorified cowboys and wranglers in general, and demonized rednecks.
Even though I don't agree, if the team wants to tryout their original proposal, go for it. And good luck...
03-02-2009 15:57
Karthik
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by jgannon
Karthik, John, et al, I'm not a PC cop by any means, but I think you're missing the point, and making a legitimate conversation into something ridiculous.
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Originally Posted by ebarker
Where this runs off the rails for me is dragging all this Chief and wrangler stuff into the discussion.
For years a portrait of Chief Pontiac hung in GM dealerships, but no more. I'm not sure why but I always considered it a tribute to Chief Pontiac, not a racist insult. |
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Originally Posted by jgannon
I know you guys are just trolling about offending wranglers, dragons, or people named Fred, but it's really not that hard to tell the difference in the perceptions of "redneck" compared to those terms, and the potential fallout. There are plenty of other places on the Internet for that kind of nonsense.
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Anyways, I guess I need to head to one of those other places on the internet. Sorry to break up everyone's Kumbaya session.
03-02-2009 17:56
RobotDevil1985
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by JaneYoung
Well, let's explore this just a little further and then I will hush.
If one buys into the vision of helping to change the culture, bringing science and technology and its value/importance to light in our schools and communities - that is a tall order for an FRC team that is interested in building robots and competing. If a school has sports teams and mascots and traditionally promotes those teams, their history, and their value to the community - is that changing the culture or - is that status quo as old as the hills? The names/logos/mission statements and activities that FRC teams brand themselves with can help their communities develop and change or they can help them remain the same, keeping recognition of science and technology in shadow rather than in the light. Rednecks, I do not mean to pick on you in any way - I am just offering a different perspective and perhaps some food for thought. Jane Edit: I was writing while Chris posted. This comment is not about the copyright post. |
I understand your point that it is a stereo type, but the fact is that the students are having fun while learning. Any college or business that sees FIRST on a resume is going to see a positive thing, regardless of the team name.
03-02-2009 18:54
nlknauss
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
I've been watching this thread for a few days now go back and forth now with many people in the community providing great contributions. This is something that is tough for all of us to understand because of our separate views on what is "PC".
So, if your team is considering renaming or redeveloping its image I would suggest that you think about what might be marketable on the global market but still have it represent your area. Your team is lucky because you are a rookie team and you have the opportunity to create an image that many of us will come to recognize year in and year out as we see you. So be creative and personalize it so that you can easily market your product where-ever you go. We've all seen names thrown out there that have changed over the years. Remember this is just as much of a designed product as is your robot.
Also, great job posting it to the community. Hopefully your team can take all of these comments back to a meeting to constructively discuss your product.
03-02-2009 19:20
AHS1599
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
Personally, I think it was a clever logo and team name. There is way too much PC in the world today. I thought this program was about exciting the minds of our youth and having fun while solving problems. There are way too many places where politics will spoil their fun in "real life". Let them have their fun while they still can... IMHO... YMMV...
03-02-2009 19:53
ChrisH
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
There are many who find the term Redneck a source of identity and pride, there are others who find it a term of hate and derision. I think it largely depends on what part of the country you are from. The farther south and east you go the worse the reaction.
So what is acceptable and innocent in Minnesota might not play well in Georgia, and vice versa. A team that expects to do well is wise to consider the ramifications of taking their name to another part of the country. The nice thing about being here on CD is that you can get reactions from all over, even other countries, and for the most part they will at least be civil. So at least team 2883 is making an informed decision and nobody has been flamed, at least not in public. (not that the moderators would put up with that in any case)
Personally, I am disappointed that I will miss the spectacle of a team with short hair, wearing white t-shirts (flannel if it is cold), and having red paint splashed across the back of their necks. If you are going to use a name like that, the best thing you can do is exagerate it and turn it into a joke.
I don't find the term offensive, but then I am a native of California, where all the loose nuts rolled to. Things are different here than in much of the country.
03-02-2009 20:44
katyrobo2177
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
after I saw this, it made me laugh really hard because it is so unique and different from a lot of team logos. very creative!! i love it! man i'm to be from minnesota right now
03-02-2009 22:17
F.R.E.D. Girl
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
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Originally Posted by ChrisH
Personally, I am disappointed that I will miss the spectacle of a team with short hair, wearing white t-shirts (flannel if it is cold), and having red paint splashed across the back of their necks. If you are going to use a name like that, the best thing you can do is exagerate it and turn it into a joke.
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03-02-2009 22:25
NorviewsVeteran
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
Here's an idea:
http://budk.com/product.asp?pn=35%20BB10079
03-02-2009 23:19
Herodotus
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
Words have whatever meaning a person gives to them, and I don't even mean as a group, I mean as individuals. I personally choose to find nothing insulting, because it's just words. They have no more power than what you give them.
This is why, ultimately, it should be up to each team to collectively decide what meaning their name has. Our team is having similar discussions about our motto "Stopping our opponents cold." Some suggest it's not GP, others think it's all in good fun. IT all comes down to what meaning YOU give a set of words.
If team 2883 decides to stick with their new name, so be it, but I do hope it is because you honestly think it is a better decisions, and not because you've bowed to external pressures. Nothing in this world will ever change if people bow to outside pressure,
04-02-2009 19:37
Rusty shaklferd
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
hmm.. maybe F.R.E.D. stands for "F"ighting "R"ednecks "E"ngineering "D"emonstrations? haha just an idea.
14-02-2009 14:22
Team2883
Re: pic: The Fighting Rednecks
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...653#post820653
here is our new logo
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