25-04-2010 00:23

MrForbes

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

uhhh.....



google is so much fun, even if the results aren't always what they should be

25-04-2010 00:26

Akash Rastogi

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

All's I found....

"Dobrusin Thennisch PC sponsors FIRST Robotics Team, “Thunderchickens” for 2010 season"

http://patentco.com/

25-04-2010 01:21

Cory

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

Did 217 patent the CCT?

That wouldn't take 8 years though, would it?

25-04-2010 08:48

IKE

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

It does say patent pending which means application process. I searched the apps, and didn't find it yet, but sometimes those take a year or so to before they can be found in the public domain.

The typical timing I am used to is 2-6 years. 2 for a big company wiht a lot of resources on a realtively uncontested application. Who know how long if there are some hot button claims. My last one required the clamis be re-submittted several times. Each resubmition seems to add on 6-months to a year.

25-04-2010 10:18

RMS11

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

148 also had one of these on their robot. I believe it might be for their drive system.

25-04-2010 10:24

Joe Ross

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

That patent appears to still be pending. http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-...&RS=IN/copioli

25-04-2010 10:28

Collin Fultz

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

I believe 217 and 148 co-patented the overall design of their robot(s) this year. They had a write-up about it in their daily newsletter in Atlanta.

25-04-2010 14:04

1986titans

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

Yeah, I remember seeing the same newspaper as Collin, and that sounds right.

25-04-2010 14:13

Squeakypig

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

they developed their drive system sometime this last summer however (according to my Thunderchicken team member resources) and one of the people on the patent list is a former Thunderchicken. He is now one of our mentors for Crevolution #2851 and the last time he was on TC was 2003. Unless he did it in secret, he did not help with this drive train and therefor it has to be something else.

25-04-2010 14:23

XaulZan11

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

I'm no where near a legal expert, so why the patent?

I recall a previous thread where a team was looking to patent something related to their robot (some wheel, I think) and the general consensus was that it wasn't worth it.

25-04-2010 15:06

Cory

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

I doubt it was for legal reasons to prevent someone else from using their design.

It was probably because it's very cool to be able to say you hold a patent and to show the students the process you'd go through, were you in industry.

25-04-2010 22:18

dtengineering

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

I think they are patenting a new ranking system for tournaments.

I'm thinking of filing one that is:

Overall rank = (Team Number -1346)^2 +1

Then I'll donate the license to FIRST, and we'll go to a first week regional before anyone notices the gaping flaw in the system.

Jason

P.S. Oh! Darn! Now I've publicly disclosed my brilliant invention... I'd better file ASAP.

26-04-2010 09:07

Squeakypig

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

turns out (after asking my mentor) this thing never actually went through. It was for the thunder chicken drive train back in 2002. It is some crazy awesome crab-drive I think.

26-04-2010 11:29

Stephen Kowski

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

If the method was the nonadrive I think the patent is invalid anyway. They can grant you a patent for something but for many methods they grant patents and find out later on that it was invalid to begin with. Which if it is the nonadrive I believe it is the case.

For a patent to be valid must be new, non-obvious, and useful or industrially applicable. Useful? I think so. Industrially applicable? Again I'd say yes. Non-obvious? Maybe. New? I don't think so. I have seen this method multiple times over the years in CAD. It must have been new or obvious to who ever thought up the SpamThingAcon years ago (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...spamthingacon). 343's omni-drive is another drive system to look at when considering new/non-obvious. The new and non-obvious I am not sure I buy.

Maybe an exercise in the patent process, which is great. Maybe it's a neat way to display a patent firm's sponsorship. I wouldn't be especially worried about using the design in the FIRST arena. I probably wouldn't go selling these types of systems, not for fear of violating a patent, but financially you could be locked up for years in court even if you are right and the patent is indeed invalid.

Your team was probably correct, unless it was a new, non-obvious wheel I'd think the patent wasn't worth it.

26-04-2010 13:10

dtengineering

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

If you look closely at the label, you'll see that it is a "Design Patent".

This is significantly different from a "Patent" as it does not actually require invention.

Wikipedia sums it up well, "In the United States, a design patent is a patent granted on the ornamental design of a functional item."

Jason

26-04-2010 17:39

Jeffy

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

First of all, this is really cool. We have been wanting to patent something on our robot for a long time, however it seems like it would turn out too exspensive for us.

I do have one question about the design of the nona-drive. If this was designed over the summer, was it originally designed for just 1 cim per side?

26-04-2010 17:42

Chris is me

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

Just wondering, what makes you think that is the case?

26-04-2010 17:47

Jeffy

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

This is the first year we were allowed 5 total cims (right?).
Either they planned for 2 cims each side, then a fp or 2 on the 9th wheel.
Or 1 cim per side, with the third on the 9th wheel, and a free cim.
Or any combination.

26-04-2010 18:02

EricH

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

Or maybe they didn't design it over the summer, which is what I think Chris was asking you about.

As soon as you submit a patent application to the PTO, you can say, "Patent Pending" if they don't just throw it out right away. So, if they designed it during build and submitted a patent application at some point during build, there should have been plenty of time for the PTO to say "We don't see anything that would cause immediate rejection, here's your number, please be patient as we examine it closely". Then all you need to do is apply the sticker.

(PTO = Patent and Trademark Office)

26-04-2010 18:03

JVN

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

The original Nonadrive configuration had 1CIM+1FP on each drive side, and 1CIM on the "slide wheel."

-John

26-04-2010 19:45

Josh Fox

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

Did that change? If so, how?

26-04-2010 19:51

AustinSchuh

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

I believe it's using 5 CIMs now.

27-04-2010 09:05

efoote868

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

Design patents are interesting in the fact that the design is not allowed to provide any utility. If it does, the PTO will reject it.
As far as why any FRC team would want to patent something is beyond me. Unless its something that can be mass produced and sold (AM 6" mecanum wheel hubs), or licensed to a company for use, there really isn't much use in a patent.

28-04-2010 14:05

CJmango

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

The CCT patent was filed following the 2002 season and abandoned in 2007 because it's just too expensive and there wasn't really anything to be gained. The students on the design team that year benefited tremendously just by having the patent pending when they applied to college, and I only just recently found out that we never completed the process.

I have the design documents if anyone is interested in seeing what it entailed. There is likely also an older thread in the archives discussing it.

Interestingly, the Illinois Tech Robotics team (ITR, www.iit.edu/~robotics) been using the CCT robot, Colonel, to promote FIRST in urban Chicago since 2005. More recently, the team refurbished and entered Colonel into a collegiate robotics competition this past March and made it to the semi-finals!

(My avatar is actually this very same robot from 2002.)

30-04-2010 00:12

RoboTIP

Re: pic: ThunderChickens Patent

a little off-topic, but where is urban Chicago? Does this mean there is a rural Chicago?