24-02-2011 11:02

Chris is me

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

That's a pretty funny looking robot.

So basically this lets anyone enter pit and match scouting data on any team? I like it.

24-02-2011 11:06

nuggetsyl

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Looks good

24-02-2011 11:06

thefro526

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Looks like an awesome system.

I'm curious as to how many teams will use it. If there was one team at each regional inputing data, by the end of the season you could have the most comprehensive scouting data base ever.

24-02-2011 11:08

nuggetsyl

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

It depends on if you want people knowing what you think of other teams

24-02-2011 11:15

nuggetsyl

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Is there a way to start adding pics we see on chief delphi?

24-02-2011 11:18

Kims Robot

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Looks pretty cool and great idea making it open to all teams. Is there a way to host this locally since many regionals don't provide internet access?

Also, would you be able to import info from other database types? We are using a mySQL database (and can export .csv and others) and if the idea of trying to scout from all regionals takes off, you could possibly import our data.

Nice work, looks clean & simple!

24-02-2011 12:14

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

I realize that right now, without any matches up, it is hard to test the website. You can test it by scouting "Test Event" which has a match or two that you can scout and view the data for.

Yes, it allows anybody to add data for any team at any regional. Right now, the Week 1 regionals are up on the site and more will come. The site also allows for advanced scouting features including drawing autonomous modes, drag-and-drop pick list sorting and more.

The website is structured so that if a team decides to use it, their scouting data belongs to their team. They can choose to share that with the world or not. Furthermore, someone cannot sign up as a member of that team and view its scouting data without being approved by an administrator from that team.

Yes, all it takes is dropping all of the pictures into a folder on the FTP. However, due to security concerns, I can't give out the FTP info to everyone so the best solution is probably just emailing me the pictures or before the regionals, I'll try to pull them from The Blue Alliance.

We're not at the point where we're ready to host this locally. At our regionals, we will be connected via a LAN which has internet access via Verizon LTE.

The video on the site is not the same as the video on The Blue Alliance. We are trying to avoid just using recordings of the FIRST stream and instead we will be uploading video from a static full-field camera at the regionals we attend. If another team is interested in helping contribute to this video, let me know.

24-02-2011 12:54

billbo911

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

An alternative I was just able to test and verify the functionality of, was to use my smart phone, a Verizon Android 2, as a USB attached tether. It allows me 3G access without creating an ad-hoc WiFi network. I was able to log into the site and then my account. I was also able to access all the screens and selections on the site.

I am using the free Android app. "EasyTether". It is currently in the Android Market.

24-02-2011 14:27

jwfoss

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

very cool system, makes me feel like our excel based system is "old school".

perhaps we can feed our data into it between regionals, or at night when we have an internet connection.

fyi, when i first saw your team number on a post i thought i was getting to see the robot, nice trick.

26-02-2011 23:39

Rion Atkinson

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Where can you input pit data? I can't seem to find that... I can only see where you can input match data.

27-02-2011 00:09

EagleEngineer

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

I talked about this with my team leader, and i said if we could use this at the BAE Granite State Regional. He said that there is not internet at the competition? Is this true?

27-02-2011 00:46

KevinGoneNuts

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Dang that is a very extensive program. I have a feeling this will win some award.

You know what? They should make a scouting award, based off how a team scouts. That would be cool.

-Kevin
Team 675

PS Any word on when we will see 254's bot? haha

27-02-2011 00:58

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

First you let us practice at your field at NASA AMES, and next you give us an awesome website that lets us exchange team and match information! Team 254, you are an excellent team, and we thank you for your contributions to the teams of FIRST.

Also, I think we'd make a good alliance in the Silicon Valley Regionals! That's just my opinion, but, hey, it's a good idea!

Andrew Lawrence
Team 256
The Robo-Rams

27-02-2011 02:02

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

My mistake, this system does not support traditional pit scouting other than robot photos.
Most venues will not provide internet for the competition. Instead, this application can be used on smart phones and other devices that access the internet without wifi.
We're still not sure when we're going to release the robot. At the very latest, it'll be at the San Diego Regional during Week 2. As a hint, this is not the only piece of software that 254 will be releasing this year.

27-02-2011 02:10

Rion Atkinson

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Oh now that's torture. I would rather be water logged.

27-02-2011 02:17

Rion Atkinson

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

A quick question. Is it possible to go in and edit what team you are apart of? I signed up for it but didn't enter a team number. Is there anyway to change this?

27-02-2011 02:22

Cory

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

To be clear, this is not solely our team's intellectual property.

This is our team's iteration of iScout, an iPod touch based scouting system originally developed by Kiet Chau of team 968. We are deeply indebted to him for all the hard work he put into the software and infrastructure behind the system.

27-02-2011 03:03

Michael Corsetto

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

It's gonna be big.

27-02-2011 08:30

Daniel_LaFleur

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

BAE GSR, indeed, does not have an internet connection. There are other alternatives though, such as tethering smart phones ... etc.

27-02-2011 12:06

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

We've seen it, and it is AMAZING, as all other Team 254 robots are!!!! I won't give out any deals, but, be prepared for a good robot!

27-02-2011 12:08

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

So "it" will be coming out later this year! I can't wait! This will help teams tremendously! Team 256 will be waiting for the email!

27-02-2011 15:58

Tom Bottiglieri

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

But does it kick 5 balls, wedge itself in the tunnel, or hang multiple uber tubes in auto?

28-02-2011 00:08

KevinGoneNuts

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

I wish our team could have come down to the scrimmage days, but we read the rule "only 6 students can come" and since we have over 60 members, it was a little hard to decide who got to go.

Plus we have a kick *** robot this year, and we really want to keep it under wraps this year. Not to sound cocky, but it's gonna turn some heads at competition this year.

28-02-2011 10:34

ttldomination

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

I'm a little curious here.

You say that we can enter match data and make it publicly available if we wish.

So if I go to Get Team Data and I look up data for team xxxx. Is this data only what my team enters into the system or is there some system that pulls out the numbers from all of the data that is submitted for team xxxx?

- Sunny

28-02-2011 10:44

TNT280Staff

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

How do we go about adding events?

28-02-2011 10:51

martin417

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Apparently, our team doesn't exist?

I can't even sign up because I have to pick my team number from a list that doesn't contain it....

28-02-2011 12:05

ttldomination

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

You have to add your team and create and administrative account before you can actually register members.

01-03-2011 01:45

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

If you look up data for Team XXXX, you are seeing all the data your team scouted on this team, all the data scouted by other teams who choose to make their data public and all the data from users not associated with teams. If another team chooses to make their scouting data private, only that team will be able to view the data.

On a separate note, if any other teams are willing to contribute robot pictures and/or match video to the system, let us know. As far as video goes, we are only interested in high-quality full-field cameras and not recordings of the FIRST feed.

01-03-2011 01:59

Stealth

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

As others have said internet can be had through smartphones and tethering. However you can easily set up a network at regionals with just one phone and sharing the connection through one computer and then with a switch to a few more. There may be lag present but it will work if your team has only one smartphone available.

Diagram of the setup:
http://tinypic.com/r/2j2jm09/7

Overall, this looks like an amazing solution for scouting and 2073 will definitely be using it at the Sacramento Regional.

01-03-2011 08:51

ttldomination

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Oh, that's excellent.

I'm going to be annoying and ask more questions , but how does the system deal with inconsistencies in data? For example, if 30 people made data about team XXXX in match Z public, but some people say that they scored 6 triangle tubes and some people count 7. Is it some sort of average? Likewise, this scenario can be applied to some of the more qualitative responses. Do it take the most popular response?

- Sunny

01-03-2011 11:05

Nathan Streeter

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Could I have my team (Mechanical Mayhem, #1519) added to the team list? I signed up, but currently have "No Team" association... Thanks a bunch!

We really love our own team's scouting database, but this system provides interesting opportunities... It certainly is high-quality and tracks most of the same data we do!

I like the idea to store video most! I will do my best to take video of all the matches of Granite State this weekend - the only good video in my opinion is full-field high-quality video! Do you think I should try to get the drivers' station (HP, more importantly) in view too? To give you video, should we just separate the video into individual matches? I wish tba would allow users to upload video (or link to youtube)... will you be doing that or having people send video to you? If people do it by themselves there is a concern with uploading spam or linking to random youtube videos... although with an account "misconduct" could be tracked and removed with relative ease.

Great job, 254! I'm sure this will help dozens of team have a good scouting system and likely be as valuable a repository as tba for all teams!

Nathan

01-03-2011 20:20

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Qualitative: It takes the most popular response.

Quantitative: It breaks down the data scouted into matches. For each match, it averages the data to get a score for that match. This score gets averaged with the scores for all the other matches to get an overall score.

You can sign up your team here.

Yes, it would need to be split up into matches. If you are serious about uploading video to the system, PM or email me.

02-03-2011 15:21

Vikesrock

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

I'm definitely very interested in using this system with my team at Peachtree, but I have a question.

How are matches entered into the system so they are available to scout. Is this done automatically based on a scrape of the FIRST webpage or is it being done manually? Is allowing teams to do the entry a possibility?

I have noticed from afar some issues with Peachtree data getting posted on FIRST's pages in a timely manner over the past couple years and I want to make sure we don't commit to this system then get stuck not being able to enter matches because the schedule doesn't post properly.

There is also a chance I will be trying to set up my camera to take full field video. I'll contact you if it looks like I will be doing so.

02-03-2011 15:35

JesseK

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Every time I see this thread on the portal I think: sweet! the cheesy poof unveling!

Heavy sigh.

The scouting program looks good. I'm VERY glad it's on the web and not some device's app system where you can't get to it if you don't own the hardware. We may use it next year, but this year we have a girl who has her own system of scouting that was proven to work well for us last year. She graduates this year though.

02-03-2011 16:22

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

The system scrapes the FIRST webpage every 60 seconds to update match schedules/scores/etc. Manual input is possible but we'd rather not mess with it while the FIRST scraping script is running unless there's a serious issue as to prevent input of conflicting data.

What's not getting posted on the FIRST site? The qualification match schedule? If this is the case, we might be able to pause the script and do manual input on Thursday night.

02-03-2011 16:28

Vikesrock

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

In at least one of the last few years I know nothing at all got posted for Peachtree for at least a week after the event because I was looking for it for Fantasy FIRST. I'm hoping issues like that have been ironed out as the current FMS matures, but I wanted to make sure there was a backup plan if it becomes an issue.

It sounds like if push comes to shove and a backup plan is required there is a way to get things done so I can now move forward with our plan to use the system.

Thanks a ton to you Nick and the rest of 254 for developing and sharing the system and taking the time to answer our questions about it here.

02-03-2011 16:45

mwtidd

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Personally I'd like to see you upload them to youtube.
It would help to make the videos more universally available.


Also on another note, the FMS posts to the FRCFMS twitter feed. This may be easier to parse than the first website. Also the data is more current.... a friendly tip from a competitor

02-03-2011 16:46

GarrettF2395

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

The 2395 signed up as soon as this was posted! We are very excited about using your software this season.
Any chance the OK regional will be posted soon?
Also, I've been poking around a bit and am having difficulty finding the "test match" you mentioned earlier, where on the site is this located?

02-03-2011 17:30

Lil' Lavery

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Anyone know if Sovereign Bank Arena has added wifi? Last time I was attended the NJ regional, there weren't any internet options. I wanted to give this a brief test on Saturday, but don't have a smartphone to tether my laptop.

03-03-2011 16:52

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

OK will be added a few days before it starts. The test match has been taken down in preparation for the week 1 competitions that start today and tomorrow.

04-03-2011 09:05

Vikesrock

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Not sure if this has already been brought to your attention, but I logged on this morning to try to test scouting a match to see what the input form looks like, and all I see is the "General" box with a Robot present checkbox, the "Comments" box and the "Submit box".

This occurs on both the Mobile and Full versions of the site on my Motorola Droid and Firefox 3.6.14 on Ubuntu 10.10

04-03-2011 09:13

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Did you try checking the "Robot Present" box? If you check it, more fields should appear.

04-03-2011 09:33

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

So all the week 1 events are up and running except for Kettering (The server can't pull the match info because this page isn't up). The qualification schedule is entered and automatic match result parsing is working for every other event.

If anyone's interested, this page will show how long its been since the match parsing script has run.

04-03-2011 09:40

ttldomination

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

InstaFavorite Featutre: Get Team Data -> Enter Team -> You can see the team's matches. No more hounding people on the chats to see when my favorite team comes up next.

Speaking of which, is there a way to see the general match list on this system

04-03-2011 13:07

Vikesrock

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

My sincere apologies! I was sort of wondering why I saw brief flashes of the other boxes, now it makes sense, they were being loaded then hidden.

04-03-2011 16:55

ttldomination

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

I'm just curious how many teams are using. I've uploaded some data, but I don't know how much data is actually up there.

Or I guess a better question is how much data is public...

06-03-2011 17:38

Vikesrock

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

I've just posted a paper sheet that can be used for data collection for the Cheesy Scout system here.

This allows a team to use the system with less than 6 internet connected devices (and as few as 1).

Comments/Questions/Improvements are welcome!

07-03-2011 20:26

MathFreak

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

But from here we can't get datas of the other teams which haven't competed yet...

07-03-2011 20:31

MathFreak

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

I like it!

07-03-2011 21:44

Vikesrock

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

If a team hasn't competed yet, data on them doesn't exist, so of course it isn't available through this system. Looking at some of the week 1 data, there isn't much available for team that have competed so far either. Maybe we'll see more teams using the system and making their data public in week 2.

09-03-2011 05:18

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

CheesyScout is updated for Week 2 Regionals: San Diego, Florida, WPI, Lake Superior, Kansas City, Pittsburgh, Wisconsin, New York City & Waterford District.

Team 254 will be running full scouting for San Diego.

09-03-2011 09:35

ttldomination

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Hm..I noticed that the Week 1 events, and Week 1 teams are not shown anymore. Does this also mean that all data for week 1 is gone?

12-03-2011 08:40

Bill_B

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Is anyone using this system this weekend? I'm seeing match results posted, which might be derived from FIRST site's data, but no scouting has been shared, I think. However, I'm still not sure I'm logged in properly, so, massive shrug from me. I was going to try entering scouting data based on live feed observations simply to see how it went.

12-03-2011 09:24

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

254 is scouting San Diego

16-03-2011 18:53

billbo911

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Week 3?

17-03-2011 01:59

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

It's up and ready for Week 3.

17-03-2011 08:48

billbo911

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Thank you! This is EXCELLENT!

22-03-2011 02:10

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Cheesy Scout is now up and ready for Week 4 Competitions.

Some bugs have been fixed for this week so the whole system should be easier to use and more reliable.

22-03-2011 10:22

tanienguyen278

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Hey, that's a pretty good idea of scouting. I've never known there would be an online scouting system before seeing this. We can put our information on the page and convince other teams to be our alliances . Scouting at the time of the competition wouldn't be the best choice, since we may not have enough time to introduce other team? Nice post

28-03-2011 02:34

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

CheesyScout is ready to go for Week 5 Regionals. For this week, we've installed new features including pit scouting.

Data from past weeks is archived and can be accessed on the home page.

28-03-2011 02:52

R.C.

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Nick, We loved using Cheesy Scout at Davis. The scouting team was wondering if there was any chance that it would stay locked onto which event they are scouting? Such as they were scouting UC DAVIS the entire time, but they had to keep reselecting it?

Thanks,

-RC

28-03-2011 02:55

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

The team administrator can go to the Admin page and set a default event. CheesyScout will default to this event for everyone signed in as a member of your team and you won't need to keep selecting the event.

Nick

28-03-2011 02:58

R.C.

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Thanks Man,

Just what I looking for.

-RC

28-03-2011 13:27

tomy

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

deleted it i found what i was looking for

28-03-2011 13:29

Vikesrock

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

If you are the first person from your team to sign up you have to click the "Sign up a team" link below the sign up form. You will then become the Team Admin and your team will be added to the list for others to select.

08-04-2011 01:46

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

I was going to post this last night but the forums were down. CheesyScout is up and running for Week 6. We are planning on making some modifications to the form fields before the Championship so feel free to post here if you have any suggestions.

24-04-2011 13:24

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

CheesyScout is ready for the Championship. We have modified the system a little, adding a way to read past event OPR and adding additional sortable statistics.

24-04-2011 13:33

acrease77

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

could you have matches from previous years too? so next year have a year selection if people wanted to watch 2011 matches kind of like bluealliance

25-02-2013 06:40

GarrettF2395

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Will Cheesy Scout be receiving a re-hash for the 2013 season?

25-02-2013 10:45

NickE

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

There are no plans to run Cheesy Scout this year. Although we had quite a bit of use in the initial pilot season, there was not enough use last year to justify keeping it up and running.

There are some very similar programs which came out more recently than Cheesy Scout including 1538's Cow Scout which might be worth looking into. If anything changes, we'll be sure to let you know.

25-02-2013 15:28

Pat Fairbank

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

To provide more context, we've moved on to using a lower-tech scouting solution internally, which is why we haven't been updating Cheesy Scout.

25-02-2013 15:34

dcarr

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

I am curious, what 'lower-tech solution' have you guys settled on?

25-02-2013 15:35

Cory

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Paper forms input by one person. Pat can elaborate more as it's his project, but this year he's created scantrons for the kids to fill out.

25-02-2013 15:36

dcarr

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

That's neat. Pat, do you have it set up so you can scan the scantron forms in and they're logged 'automatically' ?

25-02-2013 16:18

Pat Fairbank

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

I've tried many different methods of scouting over the years with the various teams I've been on, and I've also had the opportunity to observe how 1114 does it. Based on that, I've converged on this list of requirements for a scouting system that approaches the optimal:

1) No reliance on an internet connection -- too many venues don't offer it, and mobile hotspots can be flaky
2) Data collection uptime must be 100% -- you only get one opportunity to collect each piece of data from a match

• Corollary: data collection can't depend on devices that require power
• Corollary: data collection needs to be easy -- it can be boring and we want to facilitate rotation between any of the students sitting in the stands

3) Data entry can lag collection, but we want aggregate scouting data to be available throughout the day, to help with qualification match strategy
4) Data entry needs to be 100% accurate

Cheesy Scout satisfies (3) and (4), but falls short on (1) and (2). 1114's system (paper, with manual data entry completed in time for the picklist meeting) satisfies (1), (2) and (4), but doesn't provide (3). Last year, we collected the data on paper and then a couple of students entered it into the computer as fast as they could, which satisfied (1) and (2) but was slightly too slow for (3) and had some issues with (4), not to mention that data entry was a tough and undesirable job.

So this year our paper scouting sheets will have bubbles to fill in and we'll task someone to feeding them into the scanner. If we lose power to the scanner/computer in the stands we can easily relocate it somewhere else without losing data.

1503 did something like this in 2011, and it was pretty effective although there were issues with the scanner used. I'm hoping to fix that this year with a higher-quality scanner.

Of course, this only represents about half of our entire scouting plan. Come find me at competition sometime and I'll be happy to talk you through the pit scouting, data analysis and picklist meeting parts as well.

25-02-2013 18:56

dcarr

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

Thanks Pat, this is some of the best, most logically thought-out scouting advice I've seen.

Update: just realized you are the guy who made frclinks.com. No time like the present to say thanks, this makes my life so much easier every day.

25-02-2013 20:09

Joe Ross

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

What OMR software are you using? We were looking at going to scantron for next year.

25-02-2013 20:31

KevinGoneNuts

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

I'm just gonna say how much of a tease this thread title is. All I see is "254 Presents" and I instantly think they released their robot.

On a related note, this scouting system is really useful!

26-02-2013 15:58

Pat Fairbank

Re: pic: 254 Presents: Cheesy Scout

A custom-written one since our scouting sheets are pretty specialized. There probably wouldn't be much difference in effort between hooking an existing one up to our sheets/database and writing one from scratch in our language of choice (using an existing image processing library).