23-03-2011 11:24

Jared Russell

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Where was this taken?

(And does it come in DPDT?)

23-03-2011 11:27

Clinton Bolinger

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

That looks like a Home Depot sales tag.

-Clinton-

23-03-2011 11:28

The Lucas

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Are you planning on pulling up CD on a smartphone if there is any questions during the inspection process?
Hey look, Al said it was "A-OK", and he knows more than like all of us combined

23-03-2011 13:08

The Lucas

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jared341 Where was this taken? (And does it come in DPDT?)

23-03-2011 13:29

TheOtherGuy

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Team 60 had one of these on their minibot in AZ. We (inspectors) let it slide, but I think it's cutting pretty far into the gray area of what's allowed.

23-03-2011 13:35

Sunshine

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheOtherGuy Team 60 had one of these on their minibot in AZ. We (inspectors) let it slide, but I think it's cutting pretty far into the gray area of what's allowed.

23-03-2011 13:47

TheOtherGuy

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sunshine Why: I have this exact switch on my desk lamp that is right in front of me? Rules state: no more than two common household light switches. What else would this switch be used for if not a light switch?

23-03-2011 14:22

IKE

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

This was taken at Home Depot. Yes, there is a SPDT (all that is necessary) right next to it, but ... it doesn't say "lamp". The DPDT in the same area was a toggle switch at this particular Home Depot. I don't think the packaging on this particular switch mentions "lamps" or "lights".

I took this picture as proof that it was a marketed as a "lamp switch" which I believed was a reasonable interpretation of the update about "light switches".

I would never reference "CD" as an official rules source, but I value the opinions of many members of this community. I thought I would get some opinion feedback on this particular switch before investing another $16 on switches (2/minibot). I don't want to sound cheap, but the minibot budget has quickly ramped into a level that would be a reasonable budget for many main robots. Yes the kit was "free", but spares and blown motors, and extra batteries, light switches, and 3-way lgiht switches, and 4-way light switches and and and ... start adding up really quickly.

I know the limit switches come in SPDT variety, but they are less than 2N of force for most of the reasonable ones of those, thus requiring some sort of additinal mechanism.

23-03-2011 15:17

scott

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

447 used a similar lamp switch on our minibot at BMR. We purchased ours from a local TrueValue. We passed inspection, but was told we were really pushing the interpretation of common household light switch. After a team discussion, we decided that we could continue to use the switch as it is used commonly on lamps and the wall-mount requirement was removed in an update.

Just my $0.02

Also FYI, during the regional we successfully deployed on the field twice (+ numerous successes on the practice field) and successfully triggered the tower both times.

23-03-2011 18:03

MrHance

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

"I think I may have exaggerated, but it's mostly a question of interpretation; when I hear the term "common household light switch", I think of the typical light switch found as a part of a house that controls a light in the house. A desk lamp switch just doesn't seem to me like a "household light switch". I know there are questions in the Q&A about the non-slip pad, and the GDC has ruled that only materials marketed as a pad with non-slip properties are allowed. This lamp switch isn't really marketed as a common household light switch."

In reference to the above comment. I would refer that the switch in question is indeed used in household application as it is used in some light fixtures in the bathroom, bedroom and kitchen (on the exhaust hood above the stove). This would make it a household common light switch.

Past observations living in many apartments and house over the last 40 years or so.

23-03-2011 18:08

thefro526

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

I bought four of these from Home Depot Yesterday.

The Back of the packaging says "For lamp and lighting fixtures" - I'm pretty sure it's a light switch.

23-03-2011 18:11

sanddrag

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

There should be no "this is really pushing it, but we'll allow it" with the rules. A switch is either for a household lamp/light or isn't. It's not a matter of anyone's opinion. This switch is. See the description.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000HEFDMY

Also, see Team Update 12.

23-03-2011 18:15

Carlinh

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

I know of 1 team that used this type of switch at Waterford and was warned not to show up at their next competetion with the same switch unless they could show that is was a light switch and not a lamp switch!!! So beware!!

23-03-2011 18:21

Al Skierkiewicz

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Guys,
We inspect to the rules and interpretations given us by the GDC. Our direction is in TU#12...

Therefore, “light switches” permitted on the MINIBOT are not confined to those used in wall mounting boxes; anything sold as a “light switch” for household use is allowed.

If it says "lightswitch" on the box, card, bin, or website and you can show that the label stating "lightswitch" matches the switch you are using, we must pass it.

23-03-2011 20:29

TD912

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Our team's minibot used a similar switch. We passed inspection at the NYC Regional. We brought the packaging that said something like "Toggling lamp light switch" just in case, but we didn't have any issues with the inspectors.

23-03-2011 22:30

TheOtherGuy

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrHance Past observations living in many apartments and house over the last 40 years or so.

23-03-2011 23:50

Team#2057-Vegas

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Team 2057 used this exact switch.. its with the "special switches" at home depot. It was successful for our minibot but BE CAREFUL.. it does take a lotta force to push it in.

Best of luck

2057

24-03-2011 01:05

El Geffe

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

I glad this is deemed acceptable, because as TheOtherGuy said we did have some difficulty proving that several parts of our minibot were legal, including this exact light switch and some non-slip pad we usually use as tire tread.

24-03-2011 12:10

clayman

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Instead of using a switch, we just used 5A fuses on the minibot - it's a bit of a pain to switch them each time (they blow as soon as the motors try to drive through the top of the pole), but we don't have to deal with any... switch

24-03-2011 13:03

TheOtherGuy

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Quote:

Originally Posted by clayman Instead of using a switch, we just used 5A fuses on the minibot - it's a bit of a pain to switch them each time (they blow as soon as the motors try to drive through the top of the pole), but we don't have to deal with any... switch

24-03-2011 22:17

Teched3

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

good find, and good post. will certainly help some teams. Any idea how much force is needed to push the switch on/off?

25-03-2011 19:17

PayneTrain

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

I can't speak for the team truthfully, but 88 appeared to be using that exact switch on their minibot in Baltimore.

If you are a direct drive under 5 pounds, you should be dandy.

25-03-2011 23:18

Steve_Alaniz

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Quote:

Originally Posted by clayman Instead of using a switch, we just used 5A fuses on the minibot - it's a bit of a pain to switch them each time (they blow as soon as the motors try to drive through the top of the pole), but we don't have to deal with any... switch

25-03-2011 23:55

Mr V

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

In Seattle and Portland similar switches were/are on many minibots. That passed inspection w/o issues.

There was a team that had a universal headlight switch (along with some resistors) but we got that changed before inspection.

26-03-2011 23:01

PingPongPerson

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

We argued for about an hour or two with inspectors about what the definition of "common household lightswitch" is, and it appears that as long as the switch is sold as a light switch, and can handle 125V at 6A, it is ok.

27-03-2011 18:17

waitwhat?

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

This is the switch we use. There can be no way of not passing this switch during inspection. The switch actually has "limit switch" written right onto it. It works perfectly. A little pricey but gets the job done. This switch, once engaged, requires you manually reset it. Hence the name "manual reset safety limit switch". Here is the McMaster part number 7336K51

http://images2.mcmaster.com/Contents...ng?ver=1180392

28-03-2011 04:59

Al Skierkiewicz

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Michael,
The current and voltage rating is not included in the rules. Simply the switch must be marketed or labeled as a "light switch" to pass inspection.

Wait,
That is an expensive limit switch but a limit none the less. It should pass inspection.

28-03-2011 19:25

waitwhat?

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al Skierkiewicz Michael, The current and voltage rating is not included in the rules. Simply the switch must be marketed or labeled as a "light switch" to pass inspection. Wait, That is an expensive limit switch but a limit none the less. It should pass inspection.

28-03-2011 20:04

feverittm

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

While I appreciate this discussion, the answer really is 'it depends'. We were in Portland this past weekend and the definition was "household wall light switch". And before I get a lot of flames, I did very heavily argue that the GDC ruled that the 'wall' portion was not necessary and that lamp switches were valid. I was in heated discussions with 5 different inspectors including the head inspector, and they said that "they were told be New Hampshire to only accept wall light switches or Tetrix switches", the limit switches were acceptable however.

We had to scramble to change out our 'lamp' switch and replace it with a Tetrix switch to pass inspection.

Like I said ... It depends on who, what, and where you talk.

28-03-2011 20:43

Mike Betts

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Quote:

Originally Posted by feverittm While I appreciate this discussion, the answer really is 'it depends'. We were in Portland this past weekend and the definition was "household wall light switch". And before I get a lot of flames, I did very heavily argue that the GDC ruled that the 'wall' portion was not necessary and that lamp switches were valid. I was in heated discussions with 5 different inspectors including the head inspector, and they said that "they were told be New Hampshire to only accept wall light switches or Tetrix switches", the limit switches were acceptable however. We had to scramble to change out our 'lamp' switch and replace it with a Tetrix switch to pass inspection. Like I said ... It depends on who, what, and where you talk.

28-03-2011 20:47

wilsonmw04

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

just to piggy-back on what Mike said, I will have a copy of update #12 with us when we go for inspection along with all our documentation on our "light" switches." Honestly, I think it would have been so much clearer if they had just stayed with the wall box definition.

29-03-2011 07:33

Al Skierkiewicz

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Floyd,
Can you add a picture here?

Mike,
Training came well before the Update. At training we had minibots in hand with the switches pre-update so everyone had a good idea on what we were discussing.

29-03-2011 15:02

MikeE

Re: pic: Lamp_Switch

Quote:

Originally Posted by PayneTrain I can't speak for the team truthfully, but 88 appeared to be using that exact switch on their minibot in Baltimore. If you are a direct drive under 5 pounds, you should be dandy.