23-12-2011 14:07

Travis Covington

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Do you anticipate being able to support the potential demand?

23-12-2011 14:22

Tristan Lall

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Will you be selling pre-lightened versions of the gears? (Aluminum is light; holes are lighter!)

Just curious: are they 7075-T6, -T7 or something else?

Is there much wear of the dog mating surfaces after several hundred hard (e.g. pneumatic) shifts? I'm curious if it rounds off the edges on the aluminum dog gears. (Even if it does, it will likely be no trouble at all for most customers.)

23-12-2011 15:05

JesseK

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Oh boy, I've been waiting for COTS dog gear replacements...

Time to get that 3/8" hex broach.

23-12-2011 15:23

Aren Siekmeier

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

These look awesome! Do I see correctly that these include the little nub around the hole to keep them away from bearings? The size selection will be nice too. I'm guessing mostly 3/8" hex on most of these? Are 35/45/48/60 only available with the dog cutout, or can they have keyed hole (hex or otherwise) as well? Can't wait to see these available!

23-12-2011 15:33

Chris is me

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

The gears should / will come pre-broached.

23-12-2011 16:21

Cory

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

The wear is insignificant, if not unnoticeable.

We shift with a 7075 dog on 4140/1144 steel gears with no wear whatsoever on the dog itself.

In 07 we had a 7075 dog on hard anodized 7075 gears and saw no wear on either the dog or dog gear.

23-12-2011 16:28

thefro526

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Only took you 3 years, RC.

I kid, I kid. <3

23-12-2011 17:41

Travis Covington

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Edit: Regarding gear tooth wear, I would rephrase this and say the wear is likely noticable, but is negligible for the relatively short life that these robots have. Steel gears also wear, but since they are rarely coated, the amount of wear you notice during the year is likely minimal since it is hard to distinguish the worm material from the surrounding material. With a hard anodize, you will likely notice "more" wear due to the differences in color of the coating and the raw aluminum.

If others did/do notice what they would consider excessive wear, I would also ask that they objectively determine if it is causing any excessive backlash, efficiency changes, or is causing further wear more rapidly.

RC, a question for you. Are these gears cut with a modified addendum and dedendum to account for the build-up of the type III anodize?

23-12-2011 18:05

R.C.

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Travis, Tbh,

I feel a lot better after talking to AM, I have everything ready to go in order to ship these guys and I believe I have made enough for this year. First year in, so I don't know how much demand there truly will be. But provisions have been made to make more gears during season if needed.

The place I work at has an SL-30 lathe with a bar feed that normally runs lights out, as long as the OD is under 3" I can have blanks ready next day for the hob guy/shipped over night via Ontrac.

Tristan, at first I really wanted to sell super pocketed gears, but the cost was too high for me when I had them made at work or any place around here. In the next year or two I am looking to do these inhouse and have them offered to FIRST teams, most likely the bigger gears such as the 40/45/48/50/60T pocketed.

All the gears are 7075-T6 and Cory/Travis are correct. The coating 1323/973 used last year wasn't that good, but the new coating is significantly better. It is similar to AM's 50T and when we used his 50T this year and last year for some high speed applications, that coating was very very good.

All gears have a nub that are plan bore. Gears will come in 3/8 or 1/2 Hex with a small protrusion. There are other dog "gears" planned, 40/50/55, this also depends on demand. The 45/60 dog gears allow for some very nice ratios for 4/6 inch wheels.

Current Lineup:

14T - CIM pinion - 3/8 Hex
15T - 3/8 Hex
28T - 3/8 Hex
30T - 3/8 Hex
35T - Dog Gear
45T - 3/8 Hex - 1/2 Hex - Dog Gear
48T - 1/2 Hex - Dog Gear
56T - 1/2 Hex (Cimple Box Gear)
60T - 3/8 Hex - 1/2 Hex - Dog Gear


Travis,

I believe either you or Adam brought this up when we made our season gears last year. We did not do that last season, but this year after talking to the Ano/Gear place we have.

-The ano place, Nituff says ano should be .001 penetration and .001 build up. Normal range of build up is .0008 to .0012 according to the rep.

-The gear guy is compensating for that, I got a shop tour and talked to them about our application. They said they would cut a few gears, get them ano'd in house and then make sure it passes their QC, which is quite nice.

-RC

23-12-2011 18:12

Travis Covington

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Cool. Thanks for the info. Sounds like something we might have to consider this year.

23-12-2011 18:22

thefro526

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Just to expand on something RC said, and please forgive me if I'm overstepping in what I say but, there are a few gear ratios that will be available through WCP that aren't currently available through any other FRC supplier. Direct driving 4" wheels should become a trivial task with these gears - and will be possible with a 2-stage reduction vs. the current 3-stage reductions that many teams using COTS parts have to deal with.

Also, I'm not sure if RC has brought this up but, many of these gears will be drop in replacements for AM gears, so if you find yourself in need of an extra pound or two in the last week of build, keep WCP in mind.

23-12-2011 20:40

sanddrag

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Any idea what pricing is looking like?

24-12-2011 09:00

JesseK

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

That's understood, but it's for cluster gears sizes other than what they've listed. For example, if I wanted to go down from 48T to 45T on the large dog gear in the super shifter without changing plates, I'd need to go up from 15T to 18T on the corresponding cluster gear. This is just an example; really in the off season I'll probably play with some different ratios altogether.

24-12-2011 12:58

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

THANK YOU!

24-12-2011 13:47

Akash Rastogi

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

All prices are listed on the WCP website, which should be live a few days after Christmas (RC needs a break! This kids been working hard)

Other products include bearings, roller chain, and wheel hubs. Stay tuned!

24-12-2011 18:26

Alex Cormier

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Wheres this said website?

24-12-2011 18:32

R.C.

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Alex,

I have the site pretty much setup and viewable, I am just:

-Integrating a few things
-Testing stuff out
-Making sure people can't buy stuff till I have it able to ship
-Making a few tweaks.

I'll be posting it up soon for viewers.

-RC

24-12-2011 18:46

Alex Cormier

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Yah, sounds good.

We just launched our new site and currently in the updating process as well.

I just sent you a pm to see if we can work some business to business stuff.

24-12-2011 22:55

craigboez

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Does this mean that when the gears are finished and anodized, they will be the same dimensions as a "standard" gear? Would you still recommend taking the theoretical center-to-center distance ((N1 + N2 )/ 40) and adding .003"?

25-12-2011 04:06

Mk.32

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Do we have any numbers on the weight saving with the alum gears over the AM ones? For say a SS or TB.
A pound or two would be very nice.

25-12-2011 04:15

Cory

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Aluminum is 35% of the weight of an equivalent volume of steel.

In 2007 we saved roughly two pounds per transmission over the use of steel gears. We also used delrin sideplates, piston mounts, and shift shaft-piston bearing blocks so the savings due to aluminum are probably a little less.

25-12-2011 04:21

Mk.32

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

How well did the delrin sideplates work out?

25-12-2011 04:29

Cory

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

We used them in 2007 and 2008 and determined that there's really no reason to use them. It made more sense for us to use aluminum and pocket out the majority of the plate. The weight is comparable and the plate is much stiffer.

26-12-2011 01:18

R.C.

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

All gears will be the same dimensions as a "standard" FRC style gear.

We have used AM's 50T aluminum gear in the past with .003 spacing with Zero issues. We've also done some steel/aluminum gearboxes with .002/.001/.000 spacing. All of the above have worked pretty well.

Some older posts about gear spacing:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...2&postcount=11

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...7&postcount=21

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...0&postcount=11

The recommended .003 should work great for FRC uses.

-RC

26-12-2011 10:13

DonRotolo

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Here is an other example of a recommended 0.003" gear clearance:

My ancient Atlas 618 lathe uses changeable gears to set the ratio between the spindle and the lead screw, allowing one to cut several different pitch threads. The owner's manual (from the 1940s) explains that we should use a piece of paper as a clearance gauge between the gears when setting their position: Put the paper where the gears mesh and tighten, then pull the paper out, resulting in correct clearance.

13-01-2012 16:16

Madison

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Did this die on the vine?

13-01-2012 16:24

sdcantrell56

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Not dead at all...

I'll let RC answer further but theyre on the way

13-01-2012 16:36

R.C.

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Madison,

I apologize for the delay, But it did not die.

On the thread:

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=99327

I mentioned everything but gears will be available today and gears will be available next week.

I am receiving about 1200/2000+ gears today or tomorrow sometime and teams can start placing order for gears next week. I wanted to wait till I had the gears in stock, quality checked and made sure I wasn't sending out *garbage* to teams.

I will have Colson hubs available to order today along with bearings/chain.

I know my team: 1323 along with a few other teams are waiting for these.

Site Link: http://wcproducts.net/

-RC

13-01-2012 18:16

Akash Rastogi

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Saw a pic of the Colson hubs....look pretty baller.

13-01-2012 19:19

Madison

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Ah -- didn't see that. Good to read that this is going to work out.

17-01-2012 01:26

sanddrag

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Any update? Looking to purchase some 56 Tooth: 1/2" Hex - .400 Width Gears. When will they be available?

17-01-2012 02:23

R.C.

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

David,

Working on it. Got everything in but the gears at the moment, stuff is up for purchase:

http://wcproducts.net/

Below is the facebook link, as I've started to get the gears in and sending out for Ano to Indiana (Nituff). AndyMark should have some of the gears for sale soon as well.

https://www.facebook.com/pages/WestC...54930131245194

Timeline as of now:

-Everything but gears are up for order.

-Gears: around 4-5 sizes this upcoming Monday/Tuesday. Rest of the gears or so end of week 3/beginning of week 4.

I do apologize for the delay, its just taken a while due to the holidays and some parts that I had to reject due to mistakes by the supplier.

-RC

17-01-2012 02:27

Aren Siekmeier

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

If we were to order gears as soon as they were available, when could we expect them to arrive? I guess specifically, do you mean that you would be ready to ship at the dates mentioned? Or just take orders? A shifting drivetrain is looking like a distinct possibility this year, and we might look at using these gears if they are available.

17-01-2012 02:27

sanddrag

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

Yikes, okay. Is the 56T 1/2" hex going to be one of the early ones available? I mean, I don't have other parts done yet, so it's not like I'd use them if they were in-hand at the moment, but I'm thinking about shipping time and whatnot. I'm sure you'll post back as soon as things are ready.

17-01-2012 06:31

R.C.

Re: pic: WCP: AL Gears?

The gears were sent out in 3 large batches. The initial gears, the middle/bulk of the gears, and the last remaining ones that I wanted remade due to some severe issues.

The first batch is actually on its way to Indiana, should be available to purchase 4-5 business days from now. AM/WCP should have some gears up for sale. The common 35T/48T shifting stage will be available.

The next batch has all the large sizes. Which I am calling today sometime to finalize dates/times. Which is what I mentioned to David above, Week 3 late or super early week 4.

The last batch are all the small gears which the hobber/shaper is going to have done within a day/2 day turnaround after receiving them.

I don't take orders ahead of time because

a) I don't have the item in stock/can't promise something I don't have yet.

b) Once they become available, I can ship them out the same day atm.

If there is a ratio you are interested in, please send me an email. I have been keeping track of all the possible gears customers have asked me for. Ready to ship out the same day I have stock.

David, as you guys aren't far from our location. We can Ontrac gears your way. As I'm sure you've used the service before.

Thanks!

-RC