05-06-2012 22:41

Andrew Remmers

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

I like this idea! I was acutally working on a form of pits/pit systems myself. Its pretty interesting If I can get around to making them one of these days I'll certainly post it.

- Andrew

05-06-2012 22:52

akoscielski3

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

The CAD of our pits


And our actual pits


We built our pits in the offseason for 2010-2011. They were donated by MK Extrusion and our biggest sponsor Centerline. We have every cabinet on Casters so it is really easy to move them. they fit perfectly in our trailer (with literally no room to spare on the sides).

If anyone has any questions i wil be happy to answer them

05-06-2012 22:55

Gregor

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

What is the flooring? Do you find it useful? Would you recommend it or something similar?

By the way I like the 772 sign creeping overtop

05-06-2012 23:03

akoscielski3

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

The flooring is the normal Rubber matting used in most machine shops. they connect together (but we zip tie them because they fall apart easily at competitions). Yes I HIGHLY recommend it. We were one of the first few teams that used matting in our pits back in 2004 or something (Atleast in Canada). Everyone else tries to use the foam mat's which SUCK! these mat's prevent slipping and any metal pieces drop in the circles and don't get stuck in your shoes. It is kind of hard to see from the picture but we have a cut-out of the mat material for where the robot cart rolls into. We have been given ALOT of compliments on these pits, and our old pits (which are now trashed). We do take pride in them very much.

05-06-2012 23:04

1502

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

I like the plexi display case

Aaron, does the space below the drawer have a sliding plexi door? I can't exactly tell from the picture.

05-06-2012 23:23

CalTran

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

I'll grab some pictures when I get the chance of our pits. As far as it goes, we've just got two student built diamond plate drawer things. We added a tent like structure of advertisements. I must say though, we tried adding "walls" at GKC, and I absolutely hated it. It makes the 10x10x10 just so much darker and much smaller than it really is.

05-06-2012 23:38

1502

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

The reason mine has walls is for the fan on the top; we stay cooler. To solve the "wall" issue, we shall use essentially shower curtain material as it can be easily folded up and will still let light through. However, we won't have an issue with light; The model I made has 8 light sockets (for FIRST Bulbs )

05-06-2012 23:41

Mark Holschuh

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

One thing to remember when designing your pit is that some venues may not be able to provide a 10' x 10' pit space. I believe that teams going to the Championship this year were warned in Bill's Blog that this may have occurred in St. Louis. (I'm pretty sure that all of them ended up being 10' square.)

05-06-2012 23:52

1502

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Michigan's events are usually 8x8.

06-06-2012 00:58

Tristan Lall

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

A roof is pointless. It's unlikely to rain indoors, and it's one more thing to break and fall on your heads. Besides, it's likely going to result in insufficient lighting, and when the roof falls on your heads, the lights you install will fall too, catch fire and burn the pits down. The venue's lights are free; use them instead.

06-06-2012 01:20

sanddrag

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

I'm really a fan of GarageDeck coin-top flooring. Relatively inexpensive, light, easy to transport, easy to and assemble and disassemble in many sizes/configurations. We now take it almost everywhere we go. RaceDeck and others are similar.

06-06-2012 03:47

S2K JDM

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

now thats legit

06-06-2012 03:50

Siri

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Consider this a stupid question, but why bring a floor? (What does the provided floor lack?)

06-06-2012 03:57

AllenGregoryIV

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

I've used a foam floor for the past 4 years or so. It makes standing and especially kneeling in the pit so much nicer. You spend a lot of time in the pit during the 3 days and your back and knees will thank you.

06-06-2012 07:28

akoscielski3

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Yea, we have Lexan in the grooves of the Extrusion. 2 pieces fit perfectly in the groove. There is an Unbelievable amount of storage in there. We have a vacuum in the back cabinet, compressor, battery station on the top of the left cabinet, all around white boards, and a small section of Cork board, Trophy case on the right front cabinet (also used to display Business plan, Design book, and video on the screen), we even have coat hooks for coats (when in Canada ) and for our Drive Team helmets.

The floor provides (as already stated) a nice way to kneel and is a little easier on your feet. Bu what we actually use to floor for, is as a safety precaution. The metal chips from deburring, drilling, filing, or what ever, will fall down in to the cutouts we have on our flooring. It also gives you grip so you wont fall if something spills in your pit, the liquid will go threw the circles and the rubber will give you more grip. lastly, if our programmers want, we can put the Ethernet cord under the mat, making no tripping hazards n our pits.

06-06-2012 07:39

Al Skierkiewicz

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Building on Tristan's post, the single greatest improvement, from a safety standpoint, is having sufficient lighting to work with tools in your pit. When you cover the pit, it makes it difficult for your team to work. While I have seen teams mount lighting on the structure, I must remind everyone, that there is ultimately the chance for a shock hazard. I have seen some teams that were asked to remove lighting by UL Safety people as being unsafe. While on the subject, many of these coverings do not provide sufficient headroom. Teams that have used fold-up tents have used everything from soup cans to custom built extensions to get them high enough to clear inspector's heads and the robot on a work surface.
Of all the team pit designs, perhaps the one I like best belong to Apple Corps and Truck Town. They have lot's of storage, seem to be easy to move and have an open top.

06-06-2012 07:58

cgmv123

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Click each image for a larger version.

Our crew chief called it the best looking pit at championship.

06-06-2012 11:59

1502

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Keep in mind that there is a 10 foot ceiling If you don't make use of it then it's your own fault. Besides, referring to earlier, I said our roof and walls are light plastic fabric and easy to remove. The lights are a nice option if we do choose to use them.

What else is going to break and fall on your head?

Max, what is the wall made of? At first I thought it was netting but it almost looks like plastic.

06-06-2012 12:11

1502

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Just a question, but what makes the chance of shock from lights so possible and different from the tools and batteries?

06-06-2012 12:18

Al Skierkiewicz

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

I have seen teams manufacture lighting solutions from parts obtained from big box stores. They then manufacture power distro to provide power to all of the lights and then use a custom method of mounting these lights to the metal parts of the structure without any known good protective ground. This allows the metal framework, under certain conditions, to become elevated above ground. In and of itself, a danger but may not be fatal. However when someone contacts a grounded system in the adjacent pit while contacting (i.e. holding on to) the structure you suddenly have a serious possibility of loss of life, spark hazard and fire. I have seen things that curl my hair, what's left of it.

06-06-2012 12:25

1502

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Ok, thanks for clearing that up!

Basically, don't be stupid. It certainly helps having an electrician on your team Seriously though, having an electrician look over your pit for potential problems (no matter how simple) is a good idea and could prevent any serious injury.

06-06-2012 13:02

akoscielski3

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

In all honesty, stay away from over head structures (including the tents). To me atleast, they are just a hastle, and dont give you any advantage. They make you lose light (you can put lighting in but see above), any Fumes will stay inside the tent, and are just another thing you have to watch doesnt fall on your heads.

In regards to Electrical, all we have is a few power bars that we velcro to the "Railing" on the perimeter of the cabinets. This is pretty much all you need. and is safer than making "custom" circuits.

I can expand on some of this later, just dont have the time right now.

06-06-2012 13:11

1502

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

(See the original picture, specifically the roof)

06-06-2012 13:55

470-RBTX

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

It almost looks like cooling rack material to me.

I really love the fan idea, pits get so hot during Qualies and it adds un-needed stress to an already stressful situation. I'd watch out with the fans though, it might attract some of the unsavory 470 expats

06-06-2012 14:07

JonathanZur1836

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

If anyone has been to the LA regional, I'm on the team with the giant castle every year =). I don't have a pic with me, so I will describe it: This year we had more of an inudstrial look, we had two 10 foot tall square speedrail towers at the front of the pit and two high connecting beams between the towers to create an entrance way. Speedrails from the top and bottom of each tower extended down to the back corners of the pit, where they met, and a back rail was mounted in between them. The structure was completely stable, a bit tough to transport but rather simple to assemble. Two vertical LCD screens were mounted on the fronts of the towers that played our team's promo in split-screen, and a smaller monitor on top had our team logo. On the inside, the area in the center was cleared as a robot work area, while tables, a work bench, shelves, and tool chests occupied the sides. Also, an interior monitor displayed our match schedule for the day. In terms of organization, all drawers and boxes were labeled, and our crew knew where more or less everything was, which made repairs & helping other teams easy.

06-06-2012 14:11

AdamHeard

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

We've been using a foam flooring since 2009 that was relatively low cost (<$100 I believe).

The students, and especially the older mentors, love not standing directly on the cement.

In industry you will commonly see floor material in front of machines where operators are expected to stand all day.

It's a nice luxury to have.

06-06-2012 14:49

Siri

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Oh, cement. I guess I'm used to that at work, but the floors at our events (lots of school gyms, I guess) seem...squishier. Even so, I'll poll my pit guys for any problems. It's usually the pit-to-field walk that gets me and the drivers; never really noticed the kneeling or standing.

We've never had even minor issues (at least in my pit management tenure) with traction or metal scraps, but--knock on wood--I'll definitely look at it now. Thanks everyone.


I traditionally advocate against full ceilings for the reasons otherwise stated. If you want a fan(s), feel free to mount it angled on the upper section of your wall/pole/shelves/whathaveyou. Plus, then you can make it rotate into the aisle!
Note that teams who do this automatically grow in popularity x7; where 7 is an arbitrarily invented value representing the fact that scouts really like cooling fans.

06-06-2012 15:06

1502

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Oh Hai there Joel

Yeah, I figured a design that incorporated a decent fan would be a cool idea

What do you think of the lights?

06-06-2012 15:25

Camren

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Question. Was your design in revit.

06-06-2012 15:34

1502

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Mine? No Inventor 2012.

06-06-2012 15:41

EricH

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Usually, the venue lighting is more than adequate. I can think of exactly one case where it wasn't, and that was because somebody (I don't know who) apparently thought that viewing a monitor of the field in the pits was more important than not having to use a flashlight to work. The safety folks straightened that one out.

If you want extra lighting, try some clip-on lights attached to the top rails, or some form of small spotlight-ish light that can be attached there. They're adjustable in angle, and if you do it right you can bring one down and light up particularly troublesome dark spots.

06-06-2012 18:41

cgmv123

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

It's plastic covered metal mesh that we got from our sponsor. I like it a lot and we have about 20 panels of that size left over. It's light weight and rigid.

Here's a closer picture:

06-06-2012 20:00

DonRotolo

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Add in my vote for no roof.
And add some shelving in there, that'll support several crates. Having 10 crates for all your 'stuff' keeps thing well organized.

Cooling fans? Never had the need. Then again, we're talking New Jersey in March. Radiant heaters might be a better choice, or maybe snow boots.

06-06-2012 20:43

nlknauss

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Siri - You'll eventually feel the concrete floors after 2-3 days of competition in a few years!

My team utilized a tent pit structure (the "Storm Shelter") over the past few years. It was originally closed off up top but until we added some mesh for ventilation and light. We also added some LED lighting to the inside of the tent to help with visibility.

We keep on improving it and will into the future.

06-06-2012 21:04

BrendanB

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

My ideal pit is minimal. Since our rookie year we have had a large curtain backdrop the popped into our shelving poles that we hang banners and such off of. It looks really nice and simple which I love. We also keep things neat and organized such as tools in open bins neatly laid out in the shelves so they are easily accessable but out of the way. We also try to keep our pit table cleaned off. At the Connecicut regional we had a nice table cloth, printer/scanner, brochures, and buttons our table in as a neat display that was extremely functional and left us a lot of room. The only addition I would like to see for future years is a foam floor, some cushions to place on our bins so we can slide them out and have a comfortable seat, and try to make our banners/sponsors more unified and in team colors!

Personally I really, really dislike pit walls, roofs, and clunky displays. I think they have some appeal to them however they are extremely uninviting, crowded, and once you have a robot and a few bodies there is not a lot of room left. In crowded/busy events this is even more problemmatic because such pits/teams have a tendency to spill out into the aisles because their pit displays take up most of the standing room. Additionally since 10x10 is never a guarantee based on which event you attend it is much easier to adapt to a smaller pit with less stuff. With our various shelving sizes we can easily adapt to a small pit by adjusting what order we put them long our back wall. Sorry if this offends some people it is just one of my pet peeves!

Less is a lot better in the long run!

06-06-2012 21:07

CalTran

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

I've always been curious as to teams who bring these to the regional and how much functional use they get out of it. Would someone care to enlighten me as to the uses?

06-06-2012 21:09

BrendanB

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

We used ours for scouting data that was brought down by the scouts. It was also nice for alliance pick lists because you can type things up easily/neatly. We also used it for a couple of other minute tasks such as copying match schedules and making customs ones for the drive teams and scouts.

I'd highly recommend teams invest in a printer to bring if they have the space.

06-06-2012 21:13

CalTran

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Ah. Alright then. We just use tablets, texts, and kids to keep scouting and pit somewhat connected. The pick lists we just create in a notebook with a pen. Other than that, we'd just use a computer in the pit for programming/keeping track of the webcast.

06-06-2012 21:26

1502

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Yes actually. Our Michigan events tend to be humid and hot. Not very fun to work in.

Our cart will essentially be our toolbox as it can carry 8 batteries, a fully equipped toolbox, some emergency electronics, and a first aid kit with room to spare. We actually opted to have a minimalist pit and have the cart act as our rolling pit (keep in mind that this thing rolls with the push of a finger while it has 400 lbs on it ). Joel Hurd can support our claim of having some pretty sweet carts

I do agree with you Brendan. I like a simple, clean pit as well.

06-06-2012 21:55

cgmv123

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

We had a ref print something on ours last year. We were the only team he knew of that had one and we were right by the queue.

07-06-2012 00:31

JJackson

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

We're actually looking to redo our pit over the summer, as our old pit has a few things that are just not as necessary any more. For example our current pit has a wall at the back which becomes our crate. We haul around a ton of tools and parts for us and others to use as it is. So with bag and tag for everything but champs(it would be a lot easier for bag and tag from Canada to champs but anyway) we figure we can have a smaller/lighter crate in the trailer

I personally am not a huge fan of enclosed/covered pits as I don't find them usually as welcoming..... I'll be checking back on this thread for ideas and ill post our before and after pictures (maybe a CAD for the second one).

We're still trying to figure out how to get a mini fridge and pop out chairs on our robot cart as well..

07-06-2012 00:40

JonathanZur1836

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

This thread reminded me of the two story pits; I have never seen them myself as they were outlawed before my rookie year, but it sounds awesome just from the sound of it, as long as it is sturdy and there is some sort of railing to stop people from falling.

07-06-2012 00:49

Astrokid248

Oooo Pit Design! I love seeing different pits and how they get set up! I'm a big fan of any pit that integrates the team's theme into it, especially the ones that do it in a simple, effective way. I remember thinking Purple Precision's pit their rookie year rather nicely communicated "purple" and "precision", and how clean and organized it was.

Our old pit was huge, a full ten^3 frame with black, floor-length curtains on three sides and a difficult-to-assemble shelving unit (although, as others have stated, we avoided a ceiling on our pit). Our toolbox was broken from too many bus trips and hauling around a ten-by-ten chunk of carpet was getting difficult. The last straw was when our undersized team took over two hours to set it up last year. (For reference, a picture of the pit in 2011: )

So this year, we ditched the full outer frame for a back frame that held a single banner at ten feet. We took a shorter tool box, and adapted a new outer shelf set to the height of the tool box. With a mirrored shelf, the tool box became our display shelf, computer stand (for showing a technical presentation and cad models), and battery shelf (although it may not stay that way, we're still figuring out batteries). Next, we moved the shelves to the back and turned the shelves into self-contained units. Each shelf would fold at the center hinge and form a crate. Each crate (four total) fits perfectly underneath a charter bus, and there are holes in the center of the end panels of each box that serve as handles and hanging points. Then there's four 4ft pipes with end caps and hooks for tall storage and transporting the back frame that sit on those hanging holes. Finally, we have some industrial LEDs mounted on the top shelf to illuminate the pit. We ditched the carpet, and we have a small wooden frame shaped to the base of the robot that velcros to our crate so we can test without using the floor.

What's nice about it is how open and inviting it is compared to the old pit. The trade-off is visibility, but I didn't see any drop off in visitors at St. Louis, so I'd say it was a good exchange. And the best part was it only took about 20 minutes to set up. A few improvements we still need to make is adding back in a single curtain as a backdrop, and putting in better boxes for our giveaways. Oh, and making all the silver parts gold to tie it in with our robot a bit better.

07-06-2012 06:36

nahstobor

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

My team is currently working on a new pit design, but we are taking a lot of inspiration from the poofs 2011 pit.





--

Don't forget when designing your pit, its about what is best for YOUR team. Treat designing your pit like you would design your robot. Something great will come from a pit that is tailored specifically to your teams needs.

07-06-2012 12:34

Carol

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

MOE uses two rolling workbenches that were built in the robot lab by the team over several years. They have two overhead, removable shelving units. Dissassembled, the whole pit can fit in the back of a pickup truck for transport to events. One workbench is shown above. They have a built in vise and I think a drill press.

You can get Autodesk drawings and a ppt presentation on the design at http://moe365.org/moepit.php

We don't like overhead ceilings or walls either - too limiting. And it's nice to be able to interact with your neighbors. We also don't really have room to display banners or large signs. But in addition to the workbenches there is a tall separate shelf to display info about the team and some small assorted boxes for parts. The setup can adapt to any size pit area.

We used to have a 25 (green of course) tower with a rotating light on top that was made from some scrap carpet stretchers a team member found. But now they have height limits, so it was cut down to 10 ft and now has an electronic message board on top and a clock.

07-06-2012 12:47

akoscielski3

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

WOW! I like them even better than ours. I expecially like the "Book" Shelfe you have over top. This could probably be something we could add to our pits pretty easily if we got everything donated.

Something I would highly recomend to teams that are planning on building pits it that Extrusion (ex. Mosch, or MK Extrusion (we used MK)) is the way to go, because it is so easy to build, and easy to modify. Though it isnt the lightest thing in the world you would have an easy time working with it and transporting your pits to and from competitions. Putting Casters on you cabinets like we do and MOE has are the best possible thing (especially if you have a ramped trailer). Preventing Any type of injuries is the best thing you can do.

Pits are something I always want to have nice looking, because i'm in there all competition and I wouldnt be able to stand going to a dirty and unorganized pit to fix the robot in the heat of competition. It saves time too.

07-06-2012 13:09

artdutra04

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

There was a lot of room for activities.

07-06-2012 22:46

1502

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

I'm blind

08-06-2012 01:50

JonathanZur1836

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

[quote=artdutra04;1173081]There was a lot of room for activities.



Lol I like the gif

08-06-2012 23:19

1502

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Keep an eye out for a picture of my newest pit design as I just uploaded it.

09-06-2012 11:37

1502

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

My newest design is up if you want to see it!

09-06-2012 12:17

Astrokid248

Can't tell where your picture is supposed to be, can you post it here?

09-06-2012 12:19

akoscielski3

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/media/photos/38035?
heres his design

09-06-2012 12:33

Siri

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Very cool. You could even put fans on top of your cabinets.

What vehicle do you have to transport your pit to/from events (including Worlds), though? This looks a little space-consuming. Also, you say the benches are lighter than MOE's; are they still structurally sound, and how heavy is the cabinet the monitor is on?

Call me short, but I might have trouble seeing and retrieving items from the top-shelf cabinets. Of course, your team may not have that issue (but remember that pit crews change over time).

09-06-2012 12:53

Astrokid248

We had the same issue, the bottom of the highest shelf is 6 feet tall (stupidly enough, the designer is 5'1" and didn't think this was an issue). We solved it with a step stool. There's some nifty foldable ones you can buy that are easy to transport.

I'd make sure that banner is at ten feet for visibility, beyond that, this looks like it will fit under a bus or in a trailer nicely. Keep in mind that under bus storage is generally 2.5 to 3 feet tall at max, so everything needs to collapse to that size if you use a bus. Otherwise, make sure your trailer is tall enough. The Robonauts trailer is about 6 feet tall, 4 feet wide and 10 or 12 feet deep, and I can guarantee your pit design would fit in our trailer comfy. Smaller trailers might be a bit iffy, but it could work.

09-06-2012 13:12

akoscielski3

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

I love the design. Especially those added top shelves.

I know "Astrokid248" said that your design would fit nicely in their trailer, but im not sure how. If you rtrailer is 4 feet wide, then it doesnt look like you will have enough room. From my judgment it looks like each of the cabinets are 3 feet deep and then the table is just less than that, meaning you would need atleast 1 9 foot wide trailer. Unless you plan on having the table go sideways in the trailer. either way if the cabinets are 3 feet wide u would need a 6+ foot trailer. Make sure you have a big enough trailer to fit everything in.

What are the dimensions on your pit cabinets and table? and can you make your pit smaller if it isnt a 10x10 pit? ours fits in a 9x9 area.

09-06-2012 13:40

1502

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

I'm the tallest on the team (6'2") and the average is decently shorter so I made the the top of the high cabinet 5'6". They are 5 feet long by 2 feet deep and the bench top is 32" (or average counter top height). The tops would be able to be separated from the bottoms if they couldn't fit through the trailer opening. The smaller table is 2 feet by 4 feet. The door width of our trailer is 4 feet and the inside width is around 6 feet with a depth of about 12 feet so all this would fit nicely inside.

Everything can be rolled together closer for an 8x8 and still have enough room to move about.

09-06-2012 14:13

Astrokid248

Perfect. Can't wait to see the pit when you get it built.

09-06-2012 18:14

Alexa Stott

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

We usually have one or two of those clip-on lamps for when we need a little extra light. That seems to be more than adequate for those moments. They can be easily stored when not in use too.

That's the first thing I was reminded of when I saw this thread. I even dug up the old thread on it.

Since I'm here anyway, here's a picture of our pits from this year:


Nothing too fancy, but it has plenty of storage for all our stuff which is probably most important.

I always liked the teams who shipped two crates to each event and had one that sort of folded out into their pit area. (237 comes to mind, though I've not been at an event with them in a while so I don't really know if they still do that. Either way it is/was cool.)

11-06-2012 09:08

Carol

Re: pic: Design Challenge: Pits

Plans for the rolling bench are in the link I put above - check out hte ppt presentation which has more details. I couldn't find a good picture of the pit setup (without a lot of people blocking a good view of the setup) so I'll stop by the lab sometime this week and take more pictures, especially of the second bench which is slightly different than this one.