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Greetings Teams,
Attached is a photo of our competition 2013 Electronics Board.
The team got the motors on the drivetrain spinning last night, and have begun work on the secondary board. There's still a radio, compressor, solenoids + manifold to mount.
The reduced robot dimensions have made electronics a real challenge this year. Despite this, the team has found a way to add more and more motors to the drivetrain. In fact, some members have gotten a little over excited about the more relaxed motor rules...
"When in doubt, just add another CIM!"
Discussion
view entire thread
24-01-2013 17:33
dodar
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
Good God! Is that 4 CIMs per side for the drivetrain?
24-01-2013 17:37
President 1502
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
I thought only 6 cim's were allowed this year.
24-01-2013 17:37
klmx30302
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by dodar
Good God! Is that 4 CIMs per side for the drivetrain?
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24-01-2013 17:42
z_beeblebrox
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
6 CIMs, 2 miniCIMs? Or extra CIM to confuse? Seems like the driver will be the power source for climbing? I'm no expert on mechanical matters, but maybe the pneumatic cylinder engages a power take-off. Is seems like shifters are unnecessary with so much power on the drive as you can be both fast and pushy.
Just a guess, so feel free to prove me wrong.
We'll miss you at the Phoenix Regional this year.
24-01-2013 18:14
BitTwiddler
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
I wish I could coax our students to properly label the wires such as I see here. Nice job!
24-01-2013 18:46
Blackphantom91
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
That's a pretty nifty drive-train you got there. Wonder how you are going to do the other activations. On the cool part you can just speed too wherever you want. Love the robot so far!
24-01-2013 19:09
Gregor
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
Looks like another stellar drivetrain for 610.
Intriguing #35 chain there. Even more intriguing is the massive smiley face.
24-01-2013 19:12
nuggetsyl
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
This picture makes me happy my team is using talons.:-)
24-01-2013 19:22
Botwoon
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by z_beeblebrox
6 CIMs, 2 miniCIMs? Or extra CIM to confuse? Seems like the driver will be the power source for climbing? I'm no expert on mechanical matters, but maybe the pneumatic cylinder engages a power take-off. Is seems like shifters are unnecessary with so much power on the drive as you can be both fast and pushy.
Just a guess, so feel free to prove me wrong. We'll miss you at the Phoenix Regional this year. |
24-01-2013 19:24
AdamHeard
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Botwoon
One of those gears in the drivetrain looks a little out of place. I would guess it's there for pto
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24-01-2013 20:50
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
Ooh...strong drivetrain. Me gusta. Me gusta mucho.
This thing looks like it's built for power. That PTO seems good with the 6 CIMs, but if it's not a PTO, that seems a little bit of overkill for a DT in a game where defense isn't going to be too common.
24-01-2013 20:58
PayneTrain
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Andrew Lawrence
This thing looks like it's built for power. That PTO seems good with the 6 CIMs, but if it's not a PTO, that seems a little bit of overkill for a DT in a game where defense isn't going to be too common. |
24-01-2013 21:21
androb4
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
The smiley is covering SOOMMETHIIINNG..
24-01-2013 21:42
nuggetsyl
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by androb4
The smiley is covering SOOMMETHIIINNG..
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24-01-2013 21:44
Nick Lawrence
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by nuggetsyl
No the robot is just happy that after build tonight its going to Tim Hortons.
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Be right back, getting a large double double from the timmies around the corner.
-Nick
25-01-2013 01:51
TheMadCADer
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Nick Lawrence
Where's the Chief Delphi "like" button?
Be right back, getting a large double double from the timmies around the corner. -Nick |
25-01-2013 02:34
fox46
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
Looks good! Very elegant PTO setup.
| Oh, why do you taunt me so? Here I am stuck in Texas with no Timmy's to be found for over a thousand miles... |
25-01-2013 07:18
IKE
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by TheMadCADer
Oh, why do you taunt me so? Here I am stuck in Texas with no Timmy's to be found for over a thousand miles...
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25-01-2013 09:39
philso
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by TheMadCADer
Oh, why do you taunt me so? Here I am stuck in Texas with no Timmy's to be found for over a thousand miles...
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25-01-2013 09:55
Lil' Lavery
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
Krispy Kreme > Tim Hortons.
And it's not even close.
25-01-2013 10:12
Kyler Hagler
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
Where did you get the air tank holder? On another note, great looking drive train!! Looks really clean.
25-01-2013 12:41
Ian Curtis
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by IKE
Michigan has Timmy's Of course, we drive South to go to Canada...
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25-01-2013 12:45
Jhultink
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by androb4
The smiley is covering SOOMMETHIIINNG..
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25-01-2013 13:35
kenavt
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
For a more relevant question... How is the new 2CAN working for you, and CANbus in general, so far in 2013?
25-01-2013 14:51
Andrew Schreiber
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by kenavt
For a more relevant question... How is the new 2CAN working for you, and CANbus in general, so far in 2013?
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26-01-2013 20:17
Mr. Lim
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
Well, another Saturday in the books. Figured I'd post a quick response before a night-time Timmie's run...
I can't really comment about the drivetrain, other than the fact that I really like it, and that student designer Ryan Tam (Gr. 11) deserves a tons of recognition for the design and manufacture of it. He worked under the mentorship of Mr. Stehlik, and there are a lot of neat little details in it that just don't show up in this picture... (i.e. all 4 side plates are identical, how the square channels are securely connected to the side plates with only one fastener, the in-between CIM "floating" encoders + mounts)
It's not flashy, but it's really well thought out, with a ton of detail to maximize ease of machining, assembly, and maintenance.
To answer some questions:
Yes, the smiley is covering something. We noticed one of the frisbee manipulating components got into the picture, and needed to be covered up.
The air tank holder is custom cut 1/4" lexan on our CNC router, again designed by Ryan Tam. It is basically four holes, as the tanks have a nice raised boss at each end that you can support them by.
As for CAN, it worked well for us last year, but we had a few hundred lines of code dedicated to CAN Error Recovery. Without it, we would have been dead in the water. We used the black serial adapter last year, and this is the first year we are using the 2CAN. It's still a bit early to give any meaningful feedback, as all we've done is some light open-loop driving.
26-01-2013 21:14
Andrew Schreiber
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Mr. Lim
Well, another Saturday in the books. Figured I'd post a quick response before a night-time Timmie's run...
I can't really comment about the drivetrain, other than the fact that I really like it, and that student designer Ryan Tam (Gr. 11) deserves a tons of recognition for the design and manufacture of it. He worked under the mentorship of Mr. Stehlik, and there are a lot of neat little details in it that just don't show up in this picture... (i.e. all 4 side plates are identical, how the square channels are securely connected to the side plates with only one fastener, the in-between CIM "floating" encoders + mounts) It's not flashy, but it's really well thought out, with a ton of detail to maximize ease of machining, assembly, and maintenance. To answer some questions: Yes, the smiley is covering something. We noticed one of the frisbee manipulating components got into the picture, and needed to be covered up. The air tank holder is custom cut 1/4" lexan on our CNC router, again designed by Ryan Tam. It is basically four holes, as the tanks have a nice raised boss at each end that you can support them by. As for CAN, it worked well for us last year, but we had a few hundred lines of code dedicated to CAN Error Recovery. Without it, we would have been dead in the water. We used the black serial adapter last year, and this is the first year we are using the 2CAN. It's still a bit early to give any meaningful feedback, as all we've done is some light open-loop driving. |
26-01-2013 21:39
Mr. Lim
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber
Im interested in the CAN Error Recovery stuff. Could you elaborate?
|
Within each subsystem that used a Jaguar, we ensured that whenever we caught a CANTimeOutException, we called a subsystem-specific recovery method to re-initialize and verify the configurations of all Jags within that subsystem.
This ended up being a bit tricky for some sub-systems, as we switched Jaguar configurations depending on the task we were doing. i.e. the drivetrain could be in VBus, Position, or Speed mode at different times in the match. We had to keep track of these states, and restore them gracefully.
We had to handle the deadlock condition as well, because sometimes the error recovery would cause more CANTimeoutExceptions if the affected Jag wasn't ready to be re-initialized. Gracefully handling this condition without stopping your entire CAN communications bus was a bit tricky.
At worst we only wanted a single sub-system to "pause" just long enough to gracefully re-initialize the Jaguars after an exception. All the other sub-systems had to keep going as if nothing happened.
26-01-2013 21:40
ksafin
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
Is the perimeter of this thing really under 112 inches? It looks huge!
26-01-2013 21:56
Mr. Lim
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by ksafin
Is the perimeter of this thing really under 112 inches? It looks huge!
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The VersaWheels do funny things to the perspective.
26-01-2013 22:06
Andrew Schreiber
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Mr. Lim
We coded our robot in Java using the Command-based template.
Within each subsystem that used a Jaguar, we ensured that whenever we caught a CANTimeOutException, we called a subsystem-specific recovery method to re-initialize and verify the configurations of all Jags within that subsystem. This ended up being a bit tricky for some sub-systems, as we switched Jaguar configurations depending on the task we were doing. i.e. the drivetrain could be in VBus, Position, or Speed mode at different times in the match. We had to keep track of these states, and restore them gracefully. We had to handle the deadlock condition as well, because sometimes the error recovery would cause more CANTimeoutExceptions if the affected Jag wasn't ready to be re-initialized. Gracefully handling this condition without stopping your entire CAN communications bus was a bit tricky. At worst we only wanted a single sub-system to "pause" just long enough to gracefully re-initialize the Jaguars after an exception. All the other sub-systems had to keep going as if nothing happened. |
26-01-2013 23:09
Nick Lawrence
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Mr. Lim
Our perimeter measures out at 110".
The VersaWheels do funny things to the perspective. |
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...hreadid=112141
-Nick
27-01-2013 10:51
Brandon Zalinsky
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by PayneTrain
I dunno, man. This is the most open field since 2007 (excluding 2009 for obvious reasons). I feel like this is a good year to gain an advantage with incredible drive trains, but I get that feeling just about every year.
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27-01-2013 11:19
MichaelBick
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Flak-Bait
I agree with you here. With the lack of safe zones, teams that decide not to pursue shooting will have a very good opportunity to be a defense bot.
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27-01-2013 13:10
Jay O'Donnell
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by MICHAELABICK
I disagree. There is one rather large safe zone of each side of the field(the pyramid)
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05-03-2013 12:53
Abarth15
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
How do the horizontal tubes attach to your side plates? I see a bolt coming out but can't tell what that is anchored in.
05-03-2013 14:09
Rob Stehlik
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Abarth15
How do the horizontal tubes attach to your side plates? I see a bolt coming out but can't tell what that is anchored in.
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05-03-2013 16:35
Abarth15
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
So the threaded rod crosses the entire chassis?
05-03-2013 17:14
Mr. Lim
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Abarth15
So the threaded rod crosses the entire chassis?
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Use one of the two bottom holes for the threaded rod. Gravity and the inside corner of the square tube will help everything line up. The oval cutouts aren't just to save weight, but also provide access into the tube to help align the threaded rod when assembling/disassembling.
This square tube + plate + roll pins + threaded rod assembly is one of my favourite "little-things" that our Design and Manufacturing sub-teams do.
26-05-2013 12:36
Gregor
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
So what was behind the smiley face?
26-05-2013 13:38
akoscielski3
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery
Krispy Kreme > Tim Hortons.
And it's not even close. |
29-05-2013 10:24
Kernaghan
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery
Krispy Kreme > Tim Hortons.
And it's not even close. |
29-05-2013 18:07
Tmaxxrox97
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
|
Originally Posted by Mr. Lim
I can't really comment about the drivetrain, other than the fact that I really like it, and that student designer Ryan Tam (Gr. 11) deserves a tons of recognition for the design and manufacture of it. He worked under the mentorship of Mr. Stehlik, and there are a lot of neat little details in it that just don't show up in this picture... (i.e. all 4 side plates are identical, how the square channels are securely connected to the side plates with only one fastener, the in-between CIM "floating" encoders + mounts)
It's not flashy, but it's really well thought out, with a ton of detail to maximize ease of machining, assembly, and maintenance. |
29-05-2013 19:36
Travis Hoffman
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Gregor
So what was behind the smiley face?
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29-05-2013 19:40
Gregor
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman
Video of Mr. Lim's dance moves.
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29-05-2013 23:36
FIRST_Parent
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman
Video of Mr. Lim's dance moves.
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Glad to see you made it home safe Mr. Hoffman.
30-05-2013 13:20
jamierose
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Tmaxxrox97
Is there a CAD file of this drivetrain available? The floating encoders and mounts sound like a really cool idea and I would like to take a look at them if I could.
|
As you can see in the picture, our CIMs are pretty close together. We made a small plastic piece with our 3-axis CNC router that looks like a rectangle with a semi-circle cut out on either side of it. These portions of a circle are made to fit perfectly around a CIM. There was a hole in the middle of the piece for an encoder to fit through so we could screw it on. We then slid the piece in between the CIMs. The friction was enough to keep the plastic piece in place.
We then used our usual method to connect the encoder to the shaft. On 610 we use a technique we borrowed from 188, which is using surgical tubing to connect an encoder to a shaft. We simply slide the encoder into one end of the surgical tubing and the shaft into the other end. It works extremely well and we have never had issues with it.
If you have any more questions feel free to ask or message me! Hopefully we'll be able to get that CAD uploaded soon.
30-05-2013 13:43
Mr. Lim
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Travis Hoffman
Video of Mr. Lim's dance moves.
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30-05-2013 19:43
rwkling1
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Mr. Lim
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30-05-2013 21:27
DampRobot
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by rwkling1
That is probably some of the neatest wiring I've ever seen...
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30-05-2013 21:34
rwkling1
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by DampRobot
I bet you've never seen 254's electronics board...
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31-05-2013 08:42
Andrew Schreiber
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by DampRobot
I bet you've never seen 254's electronics board...
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31-05-2013 10:10
DampRobot
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Andrew Schreiber
Wow... someone can't compliment a robot without you saying "but 254's is better"...
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31-05-2013 13:31
Mr. Lim
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
FIRST Robotics Canada did a series of webinars during build season this year, and we did a quick walk-through of our electronics board on one of them. The goal was to show younger teams what a completed board could look like, and how things generally are wired:
Part 1:
http://youtu.be/wRDkPfUYakM
Part 2:
http://youtu.be/BN2ih23KMMc
I think our boards are pretty effective and fairly neat, and there are a lot of little details our students do which make a big difference, but aren't particularly flashy. I won't claim that our boards are the prettiest, or the neatest, but they work pretty well, and are some of the most straightforward I've had to troubleshoot and service. I also think our electronics build process is something that most every team in FRC can duplicate, even low-resource teams.
We tend to focus on things like labelling every single wire at both ends, putting zip-tied strain-relieved disconnects at every motor, speed controller and sensor with standardized connectors/pinouts and pigtail lengths to make replacing components a lot easier. These are the types of time-consuming nitty-gritty things that won't win you a lot of fans or awards, but it'll win you a lot of matches.
As far as electrical board go, I know both my students and I are very proud of the work they've done, but if you're looking for truly inspirational electrical boards, you should definitely take a look at this thread:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...d.php?t=111976
31-05-2013 13:48
rsisk
Re: pic: Team 610 - 2013 Electronics Board
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Originally Posted by Mr. Lim
...
We tend to focus on things like labelling every single wire at both ends, putting zip-tied strain-relieved disconnects at every motor, speed controller and sensor with standardized connectors/pinouts and pigtail lengths to make replacing components a lot easier. These are the types of time-consuming nitty-gritty things that won't win you a lot of fans or awards, but it'll win you a lot of matches. ... |
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