18-06-2014 17:19

jee7s

Re: pic: Mar Texas Comparison map

Just to put a bit of distance perspective on this...

You're saying via the illustration that MAR=10 or so of the 254 counties of Texas.

Or, in other words, a drive from Del Rio to Austin is like driving clear across MAR from Cape May to north of Scranton. Ditto for Houston-San Antonio and Dallas-San Antonio. And, I'd rather not think about how Lubbock fits into that picture.

18-06-2014 19:44

BBray_T1296

Re: pic: Mar Texas Comparison map

I live in east Dallas, and it is still a 3 hour drive to Arkansas (border on I-30)

For us teams in near big cities, I imagine district events being as expected in terms of distance, but West Texas teams are many hours from anywhere.

18-06-2014 22:01

itsjustmrb

Re: pic: Mar Texas Comparison map

The red dot on the MAR-Texas map is Del Rio (4063), the other markers are the closest teams to us. Left to Right, Van Horn, Odessa/Midland, Lubbock, Roscoe, Laredo and then San Antonio. So to put it in perspective, there is not a team within our area that is within the entire region of MAR :-)

21-06-2014 20:29

Bertman

Re: pic: Mar Texas Comparison map

Not really being in the loop on districts, I think that the white elephant of districts in Texas will be the added expense of travel and lodging. Most people is dense population areas (such as Michigan, New England, etc) do not fully understand the time and distances involved. If you figure expenses as cost per round + cost of travel + cost of lodging = what advantage exactly? Not clear yet. Who does district play in Texas benefit?

21-06-2014 23:43

AllenGregoryIV

Re: pic: Mar Texas Comparison map

Tony, I can't speak for everyone but moving to districts will greatly benefit my team. We're a good team but we aren't anywhere close to a powerhouse team. We have never won a regional. The district system allows for more events at a lower price for registration but one of the other big impacts is it dramatically changes who represents the state at the Championship Event. The top tier teams are truly inspirational and we get to play with a lot of them at most of the Texas events, which I love, but it also means that many times some of the top teams in the state don't get a regional win and thus world qualification spots. Wildcards help the situation but if you play at an early event or happen to be on the wrong side of the bracket you don't get much relief. Last season (2013) Texas had 6 teams invited to IRI and only 4 of those were able to compete at the World Championships. That would be far rarer with the district qualification system.

Also having a true state champion will put FRC in a different perspective to a lot of schools. There are districts and principals who see winning a Texas State Championship as more important than winning a World Championship.

The travel costs are a big issue and something we have to resolve but stopping progress isn't an option either. We have some large problems with sustainability in our state. Texas has fewer FRC teams in 2014 than we did in 2011. Districts might not fix this problem, but what we're doing now isn't doing that much to fix it either. The eventual goal would be sustainable growth that includes high enough team densities in the west and the south to allow for district events in these areas. It would be very difficult for the regional model to ever expand that far and give those areas the benefits of local events. In fact Austin doesn't even have a local in season event. Wouldn't having one Austin District and one San Antonio District greatly reduce costs and time for teams like yours?

We have a lot of problems to solve and long way to go before districts come into Texas but in the end I believe will be able to give teams a better value and a better experience by moving to a district model.

22-06-2014 01:09

safiq10

Re: pic: Mar Texas Comparison map

I know coming from Waco, that districts would majorly help us. Travel for us would be really easy since most districts are 2 day 1 night events. This would save a lot on travel funds at least for us.

Then I think I can speak for some of the Harmony Public Schools EX-FRC teams that motivation to continue was one of the reasons that these teams didn't stay. The Harmony Public Schools had 10 FRC teams including the Devastators now we have only 3 FRC teams. Now we had the amazing benefit of making to the finals in 2012. Honestly because of that reason I think that is why our team still exist, because that victory motivated us to continue.

So I think that if we switch to districts smaller teams will be able to have their own little victories that they can take back to their communities and say "HEY!!! LOOK WE WON SOMETHING! FUND US SO WE CAN WIN MORE!"

22-06-2014 02:45

tickspe15

Re: pic: Mar Texas Comparison map

I agree with almost everything you said. The change to districts in pnw greatly improved our acceptance from our school and district, the district model is much easier to understand for people that are used to how sports work and as a result we gained credibility and recognition.

I definitely consider your team to be a powerhouse, the fact that you have never won a regional baffles me. You guys consistently inspire me on and of the field. In any region other than Texas you would be undoubtedly considered a powerhouse.

22-06-2014 15:28

Steven Smith

Re: pic: Mar Texas Comparison map

I actually started to post on this last night to argue against districts... but in the course of the post, I convinced myself they aren't so bad. The "ah ha" moment was what Allen mentioned about state champs.

Under the regional model, I could continue running a single local regional, do cheap and unofficial off-season events where the school doesn't require us to take a bus, and spend the extra money on improvements for the club throughout the year. We can also save enough money so that if we DO qualify at a regional, we can afford to go to St. Louis.

Under the district model, we get to play 2 district events, and I assume we'd have 2 in Dallas... so net win. However, if we are successful, we have to spend $4-5K for state champ registration + ($5-6k?) travel/lodging before we can go to St. Louis. As far as I can tell, there is probably more grant money available to get regional winners to St. Louis (at least registration payment) than district winners to state. So a trip to St. Louis basically requires ~$10K extra, because I need to go through a state championship (or away regional) to qualify, versus having a great showing at our single local regional.

With that thought process, I was struggling with the value of districts. However, many teams in Dallas might not qualify for state. We have a number of one-regional teams that I think would improve if given a 2nd event to iterate on their design. Also, I really can see our administration, students, etc getting excited about "playing for the state championships". As a mentor, I see St. Louis as the goal, but I think that being able to have a consistent qualification for state champs would be a good validation of the team's success, vs. a hit-or-miss nature of a single regional where it takes both a good robot and a little luck to continue. A lot of sponsors, schools, etc. really don't get that about FRC. I come back super jazzed that we performed well at our regional, and they are excited too. But our season is over. It'd be like playing football, where you play 1 game a year against a better team... and losing 50-60 this year instead of 20-60 last year. I know we're getting better, but some are confused why I'm so happy even though we "lost" and our season is over.

With districts, most of the stronger teams should be playing through week 7, and the weaker teams (at least in the hub areas that can easily afford to attend 2 districts) get one event to learn a lot more about the game and robots, and a second event to hopefully improve their design. Sponsors/administrators also follow the logic that you did well enough at your first events to qualify to go on... the model makes sense to them.

Not saying those that are facing overnight stays for district events aren't important... but to Allen's point, they will struggle either way. I think the biggest help we could get for those teams would be something like extra grant money to pay the state registration fee for teams that are > X miles from the closest district.

Either way... woop! FRC is awesome!

Steven