28-08-2014 00:20

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

I apologize if I'm missing the obvious, but aside from the gold coloring what modifications have been made to this transmission, and why did you make them?

28-08-2014 00:40

jspatz1

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

Appears to be a 1st generation shifter, with its internal double sprocket, with the addition of an external extended output shaft, like a super shifter.

28-08-2014 00:43

Ernst

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

This is an AM Shifter. It is normally gold.

28-08-2014 00:46

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

I didn't see the extended shaft on the first time around - thank you for pointing that out.

28-08-2014 00:48

asid61

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

This looks surprisingly lightweight. Perhaps replacing the cylinder with a smaller one would be good though.

28-08-2014 01:00

Drew4564

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

We made them simply for the fact that we had two given to us by a retired team, and it was a much cheaper process than buying new ones. I agree that a smaller piston would be desirable, but I'm not sure what would work as a replacement.

28-08-2014 01:06

R.C.

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

If your looking for something more compact I'd recommend either:

Bimba Flat - 3/4 Bore (due to #10-32 male thread), could do 9/16" bore as well
FO-040.5-MT
or
VEXpro Pancake

You will probably have to modify spacer length as an FYI when switching to a pancake cylinder.

28-08-2014 09:46

jspatz1

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

These older gen-1 shifters are almost entirely steel (sideplates, gears, sprocket, shafts, dog, bearings, bolts) so they are actually quite heavy, but they are durable.

28-08-2014 15:40

wilsonmw04

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

I like it as an engineering exercise. Were you planning on using these for next season?

28-08-2014 16:23

Drew4564

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

Yes, we are planning on using them for next season, and are currently in the process of building an off-season drive with them! It was a great way to learn Solidworks for my team, as we had to not only modify the gearboxes but put them on a WCD.

28-08-2014 16:25

Drew4564

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

My team will definitely look into these, thanks for your help! The current cylinder is much larger than it needs to be, and would take up a lot of space at the bottom of the drivetrain.

28-08-2014 17:51

jspatz1

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

To obey fab schedule rules, you will need to disassemble them to their original COTS state, and replace and redo any modified parts.

28-08-2014 20:10

BBray_T1296

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

I agree, this is the legal way of doing this.

A separate discussion altogether is, how many teams actually follow that vs teams that don't.

28-08-2014 20:38

HP42S

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

Funny you should mention this. It was about 1 year ago when I was looking a little closer at possible FRC participation and as a total FRC noob couldn't figure out why everyone on CD was showing off their new drives before kickoff. So I asked a question on CD and was politely told how off-season work could be done. Got a much better understanding now

Still trying to figure out if it's really worth stepping up to FRC..... seems to me like the odds are stacked against 1st, 2nd and maybe even 3rd year teams.

28-08-2014 21:06

EricH

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

Not really. Remember this: You can ask any veteran team for advise, assistance, and anything else you can think of (and that includes all of CD, by the way, just watch out or you'll be trying to drink out of a firehose). Hint, these gearboxes were a donation from a veteran team. Sure, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd year teams to tend to struggle--that's kind of the nature of the beast in every kind of sport. On the other hand...

Struggling against stacked odds is a common complaint among some veteran teams, too (ask anybody in the Toronto area since 2056 started playing). And there are some teams that just take to FRC really well. I can think of 3 separate rookie teams who won their first event as a key contributor to their alliance, or even as alliance captain.


Now, whether stepping up to FRC is worthwhile is something for you and your team to decide. I'd encourage you to do it if you think you can; otherwise, nobody's forcing you to, so you don't have to.

28-08-2014 21:16

HP42S

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

Thanks for the encouraging words. Who knows maybe we'll set a target to compete in the 2016 FRC season! I guess the key here is not going in without being fully prepared and as you say CD and existing teams are a vast resource.

28-08-2014 21:52

jspatz1

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

A discussion repeated many times. As with most rules in FIRST, the answer is "probably some." FIRST is an open organization which is self-regulated by the principle of Gracious Professionalism, and that principle is made perfectly clear to all participants. Every team must decide for themselves whether they buy in to that principle.

28-08-2014 22:02

jspatz1

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

Are there technology/design competitions where years of experience provides no advantage?

28-08-2014 23:02

Drew4564

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

After we're done testing and possibly running it through an offseason event, we'll restore it back to COTS condition and then re-modify it during build season. It shouldn't be too terrible a task.

While the experience of multiple seasons is a huge asset, it doesn't mean a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd year team can't be competitive - if you have a good group of mentors, students and resources, you can accomplish a lot. Also, as EricH said, there are plenty of veteran teams who want you to succeed and will help you. All in all, FRC is a great program for any team, regardless of age.

29-08-2014 04:20

waialua359

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

We still have a ton of AM Gen 1 shifter gearboxes.
When I first met Andy, we thought these were so advantageous to have that I ordered 14 of them.
I'll never forget 2001 SVR regional (called something else, cant recall) when the Poofs (EJ driving) shifted into low gear to easily balance on the bridge with both goals.
Our minds were blown.

29-08-2014 09:39

Re: pic: Modified AM Shifter Gearboxes

In 2001 the event became known as the Silicon Valley Regional. Prior to that it had been referred to as the NASA Ames regional.