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I am excited to announce a new extruded aluminum building system designed specifically
with robotics applications in mind.
* Uses all standard nuts and bolts- No more expensive T-nuts!
* Integrated linear motion system - for easy elevators and arms.
* Low cost gusset plates to aid in construction.
* Infinite adjustability in mounting locations for gearboxes.
* Available in 2 sizes - 1 in and 15 mm
These will be available VERY SOON from AndyMark and more information will be available at www.REVRobotics.com
14-11-2014 18:25
mman1506Is the linear motion system supported by ball bearings or bushings?
14-11-2014 18:44
Greg Needel
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Is the linear motion system supported by ball bearings or bushings?
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14-11-2014 18:48
orangemooreDo you have any idea when "very soon" is?
This looks cool.
14-11-2014 19:19
mman1506
14-11-2014 19:46
cgmv123This looks suspiciously similar to a certain Industrial Erector Set.
14-11-2014 19:55
tim-tim|
This looks suspiciously similar to a certain Industrial Erector Set.
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14-11-2014 20:27
Mike Marandola
I love the fact that you can use standard hardware with this. I might be missing something obvious, but what are the grooves in the corners meant for.
14-11-2014 21:35
Richard Wallace
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I love the fact that you can use standard hardware with this. I might be missing something obvious, but what are the grooves in the corners meant for.
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14-11-2014 21:54
mman1506|
I love the fact that you can use standard hardware with this. I might be missing something obvious, but what are the grooves in the corners meant for.
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All 5 holes on the end of each profile are designed to be tapped the same thread pitch as the hardware used in the slot. 10-32 for the 1" and M3 for the 15mm profile. One of the reasons for the extra end tap holes is so your cross members wont have the ability rotate when you use the extrusion as a spanner between 2 plates. |
14-11-2014 22:02
Mike Marandola
14-11-2014 22:59
Greg Needel
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This looks suspiciously similar to a certain Industrial Erector Set.
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I love the fact that you can use standard hardware with this. I might be missing something obvious, but what are the grooves in the corners meant for.
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15-11-2014 03:37
BJC|
snip/
2) Linear motion is normally hard or expensive. Over the past 13 seasons I have been involved in FIRST there have been many amazing products which have changed the game (things like the shifting transmission, systems of gearboxes, sprockets, and wheels that just work together). The one thing that has remained hard for teams is linear motion. There are low cost options like drawer slides and more pricey solutions like ground rods and linear bearings but up to this point nothing that was designed with building a robotics elevator in mind. The V groove bearings and integrated features in the 1 inch profile allow for super easy integration anywhere in your mechanism. /snip |
15-11-2014 10:09
sanddragGenerally, with this type of profile available from other manufacturers, the purpose of the T-nut is to drop it in anywhere on the profile, and then it rotates into place before tightening. This allows for easy additions of brackets to the middle section of the beam, even if the end sections already have brackets and hardware installed.
How would this be accomplished with normal hexagonal nuts? Would you pre-load the profile with any and all hex nuts you ever intend on using, and let them float free until you do? Or would you need to disassemble bracketry on one end to add something more to the middle?
15-11-2014 10:45
JB987|
Generally, with this type of profile available from other manufacturers, the purpose of the T-nut is to drop it in anywhere on the profile, and then it rotates into place before tightening. This allows for easy additions of brackets to the middle section of the beam, even if the end sections already have brackets and hardware installed.
How would this be accomplished with normal hexagonal nuts? Would you pre-load the profile with any and all hex nuts you ever intend on using, and let them float free until you do? Or would you need to disassemble bracketry on one end to add something more to the middle? |
15-11-2014 17:10
Greg Needel
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It seems to me that the x shape and the very thin material that allow for the nut pockets on all four sides make this extrusion very susceptible to twisting loads. I noticed above you advocated using this for an elevator. Currently, many teams prefer 2x1 rectangular tubing for an FRC-type elevator because (among other reasons) its resistance to twisting is highly desirable to prevent binding. While it is probably serviceable in shorter/low loading situations, in a game such as 2011 Logomotion where elevators where the full 60" tall I don't think this extrusion would function very well in place of 2x1.
I do think that this is a really cool addition to teams' resources though. With the sliding nuts on each side it could especially have FRC applications in rapid prototyping. Cheers, Bryan |
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How would this be accomplished with normal hexagonal nuts? Would you pre-load the profile with any and all hex nuts you ever intend on using, and let them float free until you do? Or would you need to disassemble bracketry on one end to add something more to the middle?
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Or perhaps an actual drop in t-nut would also work on this extrusion?
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15-11-2014 17:56
aldaeronI know details are coming "very soon" but would you be willing to share the material, MOI, weight per foot and (approx) cost per foot of the two extrusion profiles now? I am sure there are lots of fancy add on plates and connectors that we will see soon on AM.
Thanks!
-matto-
16-11-2014 11:15
Chris_ElstonVery happy to see something for FRC in linear rail. We've used some openbuild rails before with a V-Groove channel. Great stuff to work with. Easy to use. AFFORDABLE and not like 80/20 or Item, especially the PRICE. We live 20 miles from 80/20 and it still cost us alot of money to purchase 80/20 direct from them. We had over $1000 in 80/20 for our pit organizer "general store" we call it. Most of the time we try to have Neff Engineering donate what we need.
But for parts on the robot a v-slot linear rail like this is awesome to see, especially if it will be tailored toward FRC. Here is a sample of openbuild v-slot we've been toying with.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=584Z...lQzERoYxWPeI1w
16-11-2014 12:49
JB987|
Very happy to see something for FRC in linear rail. We've used some openbuild rails before with a V-Groove channel. Great stuff to work with. Easy to use. AFFORDABLE and not like 80/20 or Item, especially the PRICE. We live 20 miles from 80/20 and it still cost us alot of money to purchase 80/20 direct from them. We had over $1000 in 80/20 for our pit organizer "general store" we call it. Most of the time we try to have Neff Engineering donate what we need.
But for parts on the robot a v-slot linear rail like this is awesome to see, especially if it will be tailored toward FRC. Here is a sample of openbuild v-slot we've been toying with. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=584Z...lQzERoYxWPeI1w |
16-11-2014 13:50
MonochronOur team has recently looked into OpenBeam after having it recommended to us by a nearby team. OB also claims to be interfacable with common hardware and not specialized stuff, though it doesn't seem the have a good V channel like some others. Can't quite tell whether your offering is better just yet, though the fact that you are advertising it on CD is certainly a good sign. 
16-11-2014 14:58
Tristan LallWill you have datasheets with more detailed information like:
16-11-2014 17:43
Greg Needel
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Very happy to see something for FRC in linear rail. We've used some openbuild rails before with a V-Groove channel. Great stuff to work with. Easy to use. AFFORDABLE and not like 80/20 or Item, especially the PRICE. We live 20 miles from 80/20 and it still cost us alot of money to purchase 80/20 direct from them. We had over $1000 in 80/20 for our pit organizer "general store" we call it. Most of the time we try to have Neff Engineering donate what we need.
But for parts on the robot a v-slot linear rail like this is awesome to see, especially if it will be tailored toward FRC. Here is a sample of openbuild v-slot we've been toying with. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=584Z...lQzERoYxWPeI1w |
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Our team has recently looked into OpenBeam after having it recommended to us by a nearby team. OB also claims to be interfacable with common hardware and not specialized stuff, though it doesn't seem the have a good V channel like some others. Can't quite tell whether your offering is better just yet, though the fact that you are advertising it on CD is certainly a good sign.
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Will you have datasheets with more detailed information like:
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16-11-2014 18:32
Richard Wallace
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The Extrusions will be sold in single length options (to reduce shipping costs)
6ft lengths of the 1inch 1 meter lengths of the 15mm |
16-11-2014 19:49
MrRiedemanJACCDo you have a Solidworks profile of the extrusion yet?
Would love to have students start throwing into there and "playing" with it!
16-11-2014 23:08
ttldominationThis is super intriguing. Even some of the other posts in this thread are pretty informative; I didn't know 80-20-esque solutions existed that were linear motion friendly.
I would be interested to see...
1) The final specs relative to 8020
2) The final price
3) How well this interfaces with the existing 8020 solutions.
I think (3) is of particular note. While this solution seems to "free" teams of some of the restraints of 8020, the same teams have often invested significant capital into 8020.
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If your choice of lengths is not final now, may I recommend a shorter length for the 1"?
72" (6ft) of this extrusion is too long for most uses on a FIRST (FRC or FTC) robot, and makes for awkward scrap. One meter would be more generally useful, IMO, and would allow you to standardize on packaging for both of your sizes. |
17-11-2014 06:02
Richard Wallace
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... While this solution seems to "free" teams of some of the restraints of 8020, the same teams have often invested significant capital into 8020.
... I believe the idea is to cut the larger pieces down to size. In the past, my teams have purchased 8020 in 10' lengths simply because it's a bulk purchase. Additionally, if the longest rails are ~3', then teams would probably look over this solution if the game involves reaching particularly high (don't get to maximize the presumed 60" height limit). - Sunny G. |
However, I do believe that 72" would be an awkward [read: potentially wasteful] bulk length if that is the only option, for a 1" extrusion.
17-11-2014 13:42
ttldomination|
And of course I understand the idea is to cut larger pieces down to size. I have been doing FRC (and engineering) for more than a few years!
However, I do believe that 72" would be an awkward [read: potentially wasteful] bulk length if that is the only option, for a 1" extrusion. |
17-11-2014 18:15
Greg Needel
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I think this material is more likely to be helpful for teams that do not already have significant capital into 8020.
And of course I understand the idea is to cut larger pieces down to size. I have been doing FRC (and engineering) for more than a few years! However, I do believe that 72" would be an awkward [read: potentially wasteful] bulk length if that is the only option, for a 1" extrusion. |
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This is super intriguing. Even some of the other posts in this thread are pretty informative; I didn't know 80-20-esque solutions existed that were linear motion friendly.
I would be interested to see... 1) The final specs relative to 8020 2) The final price 3) How well this interfaces with the existing 8020 solutions. I think (3) is of particular note. While this solution seems to "free" teams of some of the restraints of 8020, the same teams have often invested significant capital into 8020. - Sunny G. |
17-11-2014 23:51
asid61This is great! 10-32 taps and the compatibility with 10-32 nuts should be great for many teams.
18-11-2014 04:15
SiliconKnight
VERY Cool. (Have to dust off my old Chief Delphi account to comment on this)
I'm a former FIRST mentor (Team #824, Students Working Against Time), and the creator of OpenBeam. In the spirit of gracious professionalism, I wish you much luck in your endeavor. :-D
Feel free to get in touch via our contact form on OpenBeamUSA.com. We're always looking for compatible brackets to our ecosystem.
-=- Terence
24-12-2014 15:35
ttldominationI saw the extrusions are available on AM, and most of it looks decent.
I was wondering, in the images and documents that show the V-Bearing in use, the bearings are attached to a base plate of some sort. Are there plans to provide that base plate + V-Bearings as a kit?
- Sunny G.
24-12-2014 20:36
Greg Needel
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I saw the extrusions are available on AM, and most of it looks decent.
I was wondering, in the images and documents that show the V-Bearing in use, the bearings are attached to a base plate of some sort. Are there plans to provide that base plate + V-Bearings as a kit? - Sunny G. |
24-12-2014 21:14
ttldominationSweet, looking forward to it.
- Sunny G.
04-01-2015 13:08
Greg Needel
Now that we know what the game is, I thought I would highlight the linear motion capabilities of the REV extrusion.
We have posted some new guides to our website on using the building system, and plan on releasing some full plans for some basic elevators (not complete plans) in the next day or so.
Check out our guides here. http://www.revrobotics.com/building-system-overview/
All of the parts that are out of stock right now for the system, will be in stock early next week.
22-01-2015 12:42
Greg Needel
REV extrusion is now in stock at AndyMark. http://www.andymark.com/product-p/am-2901.htm
all the other parts will be coming back in stock over the next few days.
22-01-2015 13:27
aldaeron|
all the other parts will be coming back in stock over the next few days.
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22-01-2015 13:52
Greg Needel
14-06-2016 20:11
taichichuanHey Gang,
What is the load bearing capability of the 1" extrusions? That is, how does it compare with 1" square 1/8" square 6061 aluminum tube? If I've done the math correctly, the Rev extrusion seems to be lighter than the 1" square aluminum tubing. So, I'm trying to determine if it's a better option than welding the 1" tube for a frame.
TIA,
Mike
15-06-2016 00:09
GeeTwo
Loading in what direction?
For most deflection and torsional loading (including buckling), the stiffness depends on the moment of inertia of the cross section, which, for a given amount of material, increases as the square of the distance from the center. For a given amount of material and diameter, a hollow round tube will have the greatest moment of inertia (be strongest), with a hollow square tube being a little bit behind. Shapes like I-beams and rectangular tubes are designed to have a larger moment of inertia in one dimension (the longer dimension) than another to accommodate a larger load in that direction.
For tension loading, I understand that shape makes less difference unless your material forms fibers.
Shapes like the REV and 80/20 extrusion require more weight for the same strength; their purpose is in easy fabrication using tee nuts and similar fasteners.
15-06-2016 01:22
Lireal|
For most deflection and torsional loading (including buckling), the stiffness depends on the moment of inertia of the cross section, which, for a given amount of material, increases as the square of the distance from the center. For a given amount of material and diameter, a hollow round tube will have the greatest moment of inertia (be strongest), with a hollow square tube being a little bit behind. Shapes like I-beams and rectangular tubes are designed to have a larger moment of inertia in one dimension (the longer dimension) than another to accommodate a larger load in that direction.
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15-06-2016 01:41
EricH
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Can you be a little more clear? Which has less deflection, the tubing or the extrusion?
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15-06-2016 08:14
GeeTwo
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Can you be a little more clear? Which has less deflection, the tubing or the extrusion?
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For a given amount of material and diameter, a hollow round tube will have the greatest moment of inertia (be strongest), with a hollow square tube being a little bit behind.
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15-06-2016 08:49
MechEng83
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Moment of inertia (and in this case, that's MASS moment of inertia) is something you'll tend to hit somewhere around 2nd-year engineering coursework, possibly a hair sooner. It's not that hard in concept; the simple definition works out to how much torque it takes to rotate an object about a given axis. Now, the actual application of that definition, and the formulas to help determine it, are where that gets fun, as the shape of the object in question plays a role (which is why that was brought up in the explanation). If you're interested in running through some of the math, let someone know; that can be arranged...
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15-06-2016 09:50
Greg Needel
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I'm pretty sure the discussion is about AREA moment of inertia (units of [length]^4). Though your description of mass moment of inertia (units of [mass]x[length]^2) is related to rotational inertia, it's not germane to this discussion.
Regarding OP's question: We found the extrusion to be heavier than the thin-walled tubing we've previously used for frame elements. Are you possibly referencing 1/8" wall square tubing? If so, I'm fairly confident the tubing is stiffer in bending and torsion than the Rev Extrusion. As far as axial stiffness (along the length) it's going to be proportional to the cross sectional area, which is proportional to the weight/unit length for the same material. |
15-06-2016 10:06
MechEng83
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FYI the for REV extrusion are as follows.
Cross Sectional Area: 0.38133 in^2 (FTFY) Moment of Inertia X: 0.03394 in^4 Moment of Inertia Y: 0.03394 in^4 Yield Strength: 21000 Lbs./ sq. in (psi) Modulus of Elasticity: 10007000 Lbs./ sq. in (psi) |
04-12-2016 15:06
garykleinI will be ordering some of your extrusion and bearings for our team.
I have made a drilling tool for working with robotextrusions, and it has the 5 hole pattern to fit the end of your 1 inch shape incorporated so it will be easy for teams to use it.
You can see it at robotextrusions.com