The main part of this years game, picking up intertubes and placing them on pegs, is very similar to the game in 2007(I know there are minor differences but I do not want to discuss them in this thread). I think it would be useful to look back at 2007 for strategies for picking up and placing the intertubes that worked well back then. Because I was in 8th grade in 2007 and not involved in robotics, I was looking for advice from veterans on what did and didn’t work in '07. Pictures and videos would also be great. Thanks so much!
There are several videos on YouTube. We watched during our design meeting today. As well as our personal videos.
The big difference is you have to fight for your right to place tubes on the rack which also shakes all over the place. This is a static goal with no defensive interference to keep you from placing tubes on the rack (you can stop them from getting there but the more effort you put into stopping the other teams from scoring the less you yourself score. It may not work).
While learning from the similarities is all well and good, don’t forget to pay attention to the differences either as you proceed with your design/build/engineering processes.
maybe they ran out of ideas, so they just said, “hey lets just do this game again, wait we cant, well just make it use the logo for intertoobs, THATS BRILIANT!”:ahh:
Full wrap bumpers, the 60" cylinder rule and a 9.5" high goal make significant differences.
That all aside, a thorough review of 2007 video will be invaluable.
Mechanically, 2007 is a great source of inspiration. Strategically, there’s a different game I’m looking at.
This thread may be helpful for tracking down robots good at tube handling in '07:
I’ll second Josh’s suggestion to be careful. Some teams saw similarities between '06 and '09 that led them to abandon floor loading which turned out to be a major part of the game.
There’s the other quick, but incredibly important difference, in that those teams who picked up tubes in 2007 (most) might find it significantly more challenging to find a quick fix to picking up these tubes. Different diameter and different thickness for the variety of tubes will make it a bit more challenging to find that “all-in-one” solution
in 07 most of the best robots went for the bottom and occasionally the middle wrung, rarely the top.
in 11 the top wrung is worth 3x the bottom wrung, also autonomous scoring has different values for each wrung. I expect to see many more top hangers this year.
Offense is defense in this game. As you score more tubes, you block the other team’s vision. Camera’s could help but the camera that came in last year’s kit of parts was too buggy.
Very true. I think some of the grabbers are good platforms, but with three different objects to pick up, it will make it harder. I am using 2007 robots as platforms to explain designs/concepts to our students since they don’t know many of the concepts we speak of.
You score in front of your own drivers station, blocking your own vision.
Offense was defense in the 07 game. It was an inherently defensive game (as *(http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showpost.php?p=601796&postcount=50)) and every game since has promoted offense. Since the tube scoring was exponential (tubes were scored 2^<number of tubes in a row>) you could easily block opponent’s rows with your tubes. So if you put up 2 tubes in the same row on opposite ends of the rack, your opponents can only make rows of 3 for 8pts.
This new game has plenty of rules to limit defense. About 15% of the playing field (the most important scoring areas) is a effectively a “No Defense Zone”. We will still see defense but the drivers will have to be careful to avoid penalties, especially the “Pinning 30pt Death Sentence”:ahh:*
One major difference in 2010 is the ability to hop between safe zones. In 2007 it looked like a robot could block you from having the time to pick up a tube while in 2010 you got two guaranteed lanes. And your robot doesn’t necessarily need to be able to pick up tubes from the ground.
It kind of is a hard thing to think about. When you score, should you score on yourself, or in front of your alliance Who know you had to be graciously professional to your own teammates!
In 07 there was a (infrequently used) Loading Slot, where the Human Player could feed a tube to a bot. The only difference was the slot was in a vertical orientation as opposed to the horizontal orientation this year.
Which makes it exponentially easier to human load through the given slot this year than 2007 IMO. Though somehow certain teams found ways to human load without using it…
Okay, I think people got a little bit off track. If you read the original thread, you would know that I didn’t want this to be a discussion of every minute difference between the 2011 and 2007 games. I was looking for tube manipulator designs that worked well. One guy at the begining had the right idea with a link about 2007 bots. That guy is awesome, I really don’t care about the rest of you.
While it’s entirely possible that we did get off track, I wouldn’t be so quick to dismiss everyone aside from the “one guy at the beginning.” There’s good lessons to be learned.
If you have the chance, I recommend trying to track down a copy of the 2007 FIRST Behind the Design book.
And also, the videos from Einstein that year.