2008 game confusion thread

To start off, my team is a bit confused over rules

<g20>

TRACKBALL Locations - After all ROBOTS participating in the MATCH are in their starting 
positions and the TEAM members are in the ALLIANCE ZONE and/or ROBOCOACH 
STATIONS, four TRACKBALLS will be placed on the OVERPASS.  On each side of the 
OVERPASS there are three TARGET LOCATIONS for TRACKBALLS.  The field 
management system will randomly choose an initial starting location for the TRACKBALLS 
before the start of each MATCH.  One red and one blue TRACKBALL will then be positioned 
in the chosen TARGET LOCATIONS on each side of the OVERPASS. After this point in 
time no ROBOT may be moved or repositioned until the MATCH starts.

and

 HOME STRETCH Height Restriction – ROBOTS in the HOME STRETCH of the opposing 
ALLIANCE can not be more than 6 feet tall.  A PENALTY will be assigned for each 
infraction.

Since each side of the track has one red and one blue ball, and your robot can not be over 6’ in the opponent’s home stretch, how can you hit your colored ball off of the overpass in the opponent’s home stretch? Do you have to rely on the other team knocking your ball off of their overpass? Wouldn’t this result in only 2 balls in play?

The only way we see to get your ball off of the opponent’s overpass was to cross their finish line (so you are not in their home stretch), and then push it backwards… Into their home stretch… Then an alliance mate could come around and push it across… This seems like an odd process though, just to get your ball off of their overpass…

Also, in the game animation, we can clearly see a red robot extending its arm higher than the overpass while in the blue home stretch! This directly conflicts <g36> Something is wrong:

rulebreak.jpg


rulebreak.jpg

There is a similar question among my team. How are you supposed to knock off the trackballs that the opposing alliance places on the overpass? The rules are very unclear about this.

We are talking about this same question. It was complicated further for us because on both the animation and the human demonstration, the “Home stretch” rule was broken. The updates page and the Q and A page on USFIRST are not up yet. Are we making the mistake or did FIRST make the mistake?

Also, unfortunately, the Home Stretch appears to extend all the way under the overpass. Meaning that it is not possible to reach high enough until you’ve passed the second bar. This means that the only way to touch the ball is on the other side. However, this only leaves four inches between the first point of contact with the ball and the edge plane of the home stretch. It doesn’t seem like it would be practical to knock a ten pound ball off of it’s seat with four inches of motion.

After looking in the rules, it appears that the homestretch is only one half each alliance’s total zone. I guess that means that you’re restricted from going over 6’ on one quarter of the track. Still, that doesn’t really solve the problem, though you could go past the other alliance’s finish line and try to knock it down just past the opponent’s homestretch.

I’d like to know the official ruling on this one too.

This isn’t legal, either… I started a similar thread over here explaining why it doesn’t look like you can descore at all, or even retrieve your own ball at the start:
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=668363

ok, i think i get it now. So the arena is separated into 4 quarters, and the home stretch is the area of each side after you pass through the finish line.

I wasn’t suggesting driving back over the line, but after the finish line, looking back and trying to knock the ball down without breaking the line plane. Could be called obstruction of traffic, anyhow. Still, I highly doubt that’s what FIRST intended. I’m really surprised by this rule… can’t figure out the reasoning behind it. Would like the Q&A to go up so we can get some resolution.

Actually, it’s the quarter right before you hit the line. The color of the finish line determines the color of the homestretch.

I think your drawing was reversed… the way the manual has it makes problems:

realField.jpg


realField.jpg

You would be correct i think. The finish line location provides enough room for it to be before the finish line. I will edit my picture

Watch the game animation. Just past halfway through, the red forklift robot, in the blue homestretch, raises over 6’ and knocks a red trackball off of the overpass. In accordance with <G36>, this is illegal.

What is going on?

i agree the animation goes against the rule

About the problem of having only one ball avalible to you in your home streatch, is it possible that you could put a ball into play during the autonomous period?

If at the beggining of the match during the hybrid period, you knock down a ball of the opposing alliance, who recieves the points?

<G08> All TRACKBALL scores are awarded to the ALLIANCE associated with the scored TRACKBALL, independent of the ROBOT that may have caused the scoring action to occur.

To arizonafoxx: Yes, look at G09:

<G09> During the HYBRID PERIOD, each TRACKBALL that is removed from the OVERPASS (i.e. completely removed from its initial TARGET LOCATION and not in contact with any portions of the OVERPASS) at the end of the HYBRID PERIOD will earn 8 points.

It specifically mentions the hybrid phase.

So the red robot in the beginning in the animation broke the rule?

Are we able to have two infrared controllers on our robot?

yes but you can only have one driver then.

You would need to consult the Parts Use Flowchart to find out about the legality of the part. Since it is a duplicate of something in the KoP, I’m inclined to say yes, but since it is not available as COTS, maybe not. In any case, because of <G49> and <R65>, you would still only be allowed to use four buttons on your remote.

Are you saying that you can have more than one RoboCoach? I’m pretty sure that’s not the case.

ROBOCOACH: A pre-college student team member designated as the only team member permitted to provide external stimuli to the ROBOT from either of the two ALLIANCE ROBOCOACH STATIONS. There is one ROBOCOACH per TEAM.

My bad.