2012 FRC Team 1717 Uncut

Jake,

Is there by any chance you could put up close up pics of the intake/shooter/robot etc…

I was slightly too buys talking to Amir/the kids and checking out the amazing modules to really get a chance to take a look at the rest of the bot!

Thanks,

-RC

Expanding on this: Could you upload the CAD to FRC-designs.com? I would absolutely LOVE to see the CAD of a 1717 bot.

I have seen that this request has already been posted, but I felt the need to echo this plea.

Edit:: Please don’t feel obligated to do this, it is just a request. You do not have to release your CAD, and I understand if you don’t.

The CAD would be absolutely wonderful. While you may choose not to release it (and that’s perfectly okay), keep in mind that it would hugely benefit the entire FIRST community. Additionally, it is not unheard of for power-house teams to release their CAD, and FRC-Designs is a wonderful outlet to do so (148,973 come to mind).

Either way, would it be possible to get pictures of the independent gearboxes? Preferably with the module installed. I had the chance to see your old ones in 2011, but never got to see the 2012 modules up-close.

I second this it would help the First community out. You dont have to release it and Im okay with that decision.Keep in mind teams like 148,33,2337 have released theirs this year also.

It’s helpful for teams to release their CAD files, but don’t pressure teams to do so or try to make them feel obligated to due so based on GP.

Those were some amazing videos. I absolute love this robot. Its just so original and ingenious. I also have the honor to be on the receiving end of that 30 second end game.

What would be really cool is a tour video of Dos Pueblo’s new engineering academy building. The New Cool showed how hard everyone was fighting for it. It would be nice to see the fruit of that labor. Judging from background of the videos, it was a happy ending. Plus, I know my team’s school is curious about Dos Pueblo’s engineering program.

In regards to releasing the CAD, their mentors told me the Swerve drive alone took 5 students and 5 mentors over 2000 hours to create. I think its perfectly fine if 1717 does not want to release their CAD. They worked so hard and learned so much. I think the journey is the greater reward. I think its great that some teams release their CAD but its ok for a team to not want to. sometimes things are too precious to share. Besides maybe its better to share the journey than the reward.

In that regards, I would like the thank 1717 (and 973 too) for inspiring my team to explore swerve drive as a summer project. We are in the project feasibility phase, we know there is no guarantee of success. Even if we don’t make it out of the feasibility phase, I am pretty sure my students will learn a lot.

I don’t know about you guys, but I’m way more interested in their targeting software! I love the Swerve drive and all, but many-a-team have developed a Swerve drive through their histories that had people swooning. I haven’t seen a single team with such pin-point accuracy as employed by 1717.

Seeing 1717’s code would be quite the early Christmas present :slight_smile: But Adam is right. It’s unfair to ask a team to release their stuff. If 1717 feels right about releasing the stuff they put so much work in, then they’ll do it. If not, we can only continue on the path of exploration and striving to reach that elusive point at the top of the mountain where 1717’s robot parties with all the other legendary machines of yore.

Once again, 1717, congratulations on an amazing machine. My views of 1717 have certainly changed through this season (not that I held any negative feelings towards them or anything like that). If 1717 can continue to build robot’s of this quality, it’ll only be a matter of time before we hear Dave introducing them on Einstein. And from there, the confetti storm for them won’t be too far off.

We’re likely running a 6/8wd next season :wink:

What would be really cool is a tour video of Dos Pueblo’s new engineering academy building. The New Cool showed how hard everyone was fighting for it. It would be nice to see the fruit of that labor. Judging from background of the videos, it was a happy ending. Plus, I know my team’s school is curious about Dos Pueblo’s engineering program.

I believe they actually just had an open house a few weeks ago. I don’t know if they will hold more or if this was a one time thing because they just got the new building.

how odd, the drivetrain that is running against swerve in our feasibility discussion is a 6/8wd;)

That is quite an optimistic statement; without even knowing next years game! :rolleyes:

I think we should just drop the topic of releasing the CAD or not, because all the more we talk about it, all the more they are going to feel pressured into it. Rather than emulating their swerve, study all the swerves and use 1717’s swerve as a baseline for the performance you want out of yours. You’re never going to beat them in a driving fight if you’re using the swerve that they designed and practiced with. You need something that would out perform theirs.

Well, this is NOT helping me not want to build a swerve…

1717, it was a pleasure to see you guys this season, your swerve is an inspiration.

Thanks for the heads up and this was an idea we considered for last year’s game (especially since most of the time the robot was facing you), but given what is said here… I feel there is a missing piece to the puzzle… A gyro can give delta’s of angular acceleration but what can ensure the robot’s heading is calibrated? Is there some point of reference that can be sensed dynamically while rotating?

I’ll be anxious to hear how/if they solved that problem. :slight_smile:

Very, very VERY impressive. I wish I had gotten a closer look in St Louis.
Kudos to 1717 on such an amazingly capable machine. Everyone involved with that robot should be VERY proud.

Each year we are given an engineering challenge. Each year we all struggle to pull some engineering excellence out of our hat and create the perfect robot for the challenge. This robot certainly just drips in engineering excellence. :slight_smile: Even without a Championship win, this robot represents a HUGE success.

I’d love to hear more about the process that went into the creation of this beast:
What sorts of iteration did you go through?
What systems came together quickly, which ones did you struggle with?
What decisions came easy, and which ones did you debate most?

Thanks for dropping my jaw!
-John

PS - This is the first time in a looong time I’ve been impressed with a swerve drive. I feel bad for all the teams next year who will be inspired to do swerve thinking they’ll end up with something like this, only to be… surprised by what they actually end up with. :wink:

Our first year doing swerve was in fact the 2009 season in the game Lunacy as stated above. Our design process for that year is detailed pretty well in the book, The New Cool. Each year since 2009, we have decided to continue using swerve.

In the 2010 and 2011 seasons, we found it beneficial to be able to translate from side to side. This was especially true in last year’s game Logomotion when positioning the robot to score. In the past two years, our robot could either translate in any direction or rotate in place. It could not, however, rotate and translate simultaneously due to the mechanical limitations of our motor-gearbox-module-arrangement. Based on our comfort level with the different motors in the kit, we didn’t feel that it was worth taking high powered motors from key mechanisms and allocating them to the drive or using lower power motors to create an independent swerve drive.

This year, however, with the new motor allowance, we were able to allocate 8 motors to the drive and still have enough high quality/power motors remaining to effectively power all of our remaining mechanisms. With those 8 motors allocated to our drivetrain, we were able to create a swerve drive system with 4 independent wheel modules. The independent modules allowed us to implement spinning while driving and pivoting around one wheel.

Inspiring as always. We enjoyed our one (+replay) match with you guys.

I will reitterate all of what Mr. V-Neun said. I absolutely love this robot and would love to hear more about your teams design process and build season schedual.

I’m already looking forward to seeing what you build next year,
Regards, Bryan

Yes magnetometer. But it lags, so you have to run it through a filter.

1717 has inspired me. They are truly one of the best teams in FIRST, and I am so glad that they have finally found the spotlight(if they had not already by showing up on Einstein in 2009). The quality of each and every robot they make is amazing.

Swerve is a very hard drivetrain. They make it look very easy. However, even if they do not release their CAD, I highly recommend to any teams looking into swerve that you look at 973’s Emperor Swerve. I feel that it is mechanically equal to 1717’s drivetrain. You should furthermore look at 973’s CADs regardless, because they are an example of how to make a competitive robot.

Again, to all teams looking into swerve: it is a very hard drivetrain. Adam has even said that they are likely not going to compete with a swerve again next year. The amount of driver practice, programming, and build time required just to get a competitive swerve, is unachievable than 95% of teams, and furthermore not worth the return on investment those teams. Prototyping in the offseason is a must, and don’t expect to compete with it after only a year of prototyping. 6/8 wheel drive is an absolutely competitive drivetrain, that I and many other teams, including powerhouses, will recommend.

Small correction, they were Galileo finalists and the CMP quality award winners.

yea, if you read their book… lol