I really like this idea. Needs some thought, but you could probably wrap the target identifier into a team giveaway or something.
In the original vein of this thread, I really like this idea, Kevin. Hopefully the results of this survey can be leveraged into meaningful change.
I hadn’t heard/seen this “game” before (haven’t been to Champs yet either) and I was curious, so did some digging as I tend to do. I found a couple of links talking about it, one from 2011 as a family game that apparently the blogger remembers being played for years and another from Vex Champs in 2013.
https://shanehalbach.com/2011/12/08/the-clothespin-game/
https://www.facebook.com/events/439479122807499/
Like many activities, this probably started out as the innocent thing between people that know each other/family and has now spread out. With the current environment, this sounds like it is approaching (or already has with some of the posts here) the mascot “hugging” level (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1386771#post1386771). I’m easily imagining a clothes-pinning attempt not going well and the “victim” being creeped out by it something fierce. It would really suck to find out that is why someone decided to stop participating in this life-directing program when it didn’t need to happen at all.
Paired up with the Making STEM a better place for women (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1571301#post1571301) thread, we probably need to work on making sure the environment stays safe, inviting, and comfortable for all participants.
This is a good compromise provided that people know and follow it. A simple thing I thought about was having a clothespin on the upper, front part of your torso. It would be very difficult to get that on someone without their knowledge and easy to see for other willing participants.
Our team participates in the clothspin game, but we hardly ever actually need to establish any rules about it. They are simply non-verbally understood to be something along the lines of:
You make some other points about how it is a non-consensual act, and I agree in a perfect world we should all agree about how we treat each other, but I have never observed this specifically. This is partly because the clothspinner is trying to not be noticed. People can really only be pinned on spirit wear or the ends of very long clothing without the person clearly overstepping their boundries (If a person can not understand that walking up to a stranger and pinching tight clothing to put a clothespin on is inappropriate, we need to take more then just clothespins away from them). If the person feels violated afterwards, then the person doing the clipping already violated how close the clippee like to be within people. What I am saying is not that clipping is an okay substitute for direct inappropriate touching, but that clipping should be treated like a direct touch. I have had my YETI hat pet more times then I probably know about it, and I am okay with that. I have also been hugged more times then I have wanted (usually by team members, but I still am not a hugging person and “did not consent/reciprocate”), and that is okay.
I would just like to remind you that physical contact is not even required to make someone feel uncomfortable. (Noting that this situation is gender neutral, because this applies to everybody) A stranger trying to start a conversation with you may be absolutely fine, because you love to talk, or terrifying. But either way, we do not consider this stranger with good intentions rude. It is only if they continue their social interaction past the point where it should be understood that they should stop talking and leave that they are rude.
For better or worse: We do not require people to wear “I am comfortable with spontaneous social interaction” signs
Its an utterly pointless thing to do at events and if you started to ask around you’ll have more people against clothespins than for them. It adds a little humor but mostly annoyance or discomfort.
Teams have been asked not to bring certain giveaways with them before I see no reason why they can’t extend into clothespins.
The difference between clothespins and something like noisemakers is that pinning someone is a one-on-one action. It does not affect anyone who doesn’t get pinned. When respecting personal space can be made part of the culture, banning an item entirely is an overreaction. Instead of outlawing the entire clothespinning game, it would be good for all involved to actually embrace the game and set clear guidelines for its players.
And once the “explicit consent” idea is made part of the game, it can then be institutionalized and extended to other personal-space actions: mascot hugs, shoulder rubs, hair touching, etc.
Someone across from our pit brought an entire kit tote full of clothespins and made a game with twitter out of it - it probably weighed 30 pounds. We were so close in proximity that we got tagged more than a hundred times easily. I have to agree that it is obnoxious when not moderated and that my team will never bring pegs to competition but I do not think we will go as far as dismantling them since I do see some kids having harmless fun with them.
I think 1v1 student confrontation over them is a problem if the students who are tagging have questionable character and behave inappropriately with them because most of the time it is harmless. The mistakes of a few ruin it for all.
I would not be opposed to a collective ban on them at competitions because there are other ways to have fun at the events. Seating harassment was way worse this year but since the venues will shrink next year the problem will hopefully shrink along with it.
I do not get it, why is anyone offended by the pins? Seems like a harmless game (which my team didn’t partake in).
This could only work if it were in any way enforcable. If you tagged someone who did not consent, how would you be punished or for that matter get caught. I think this solution would actually make a meta-game about who can tag the most non-consenting people and get away with it. Frankly I think it would hurt more than help.
For me, it’s the fact that I am helping to make a robotics event happen and teams to perform their best and I do not want to distracted by someone putting a clothespin on me. I also agree with the points on personal space.
I don’t like being touched without my consent, especially by strangers.
It really is the worst feeling if you haven’t experienced it.
Mine was comparatively mild: I worked USC football games as a fundraiser for 4901. It’s hot and sweaty work in big (drunken) crowds, but it’s good money. I was on the ramps probably 30 minutes to kickoff, eyes towards the thousands pouring into the stadium, when someone came up on my blind side and just started playing with my sideburns (which were already a little disgusting from the heat and exertion) before continuing on up the ramp. I didn’t have means to stop them, nor did it feel like it was worth my efforts to do so, but It Was Not Okay.
If you’re going to clothespin, do it with consent or don’t do it at all.
You could. Im not going to call any teams out because what happened is over, but I noticed the team sitting behind us didn’t have their bleachers full and I only watched matches whenever we were up since I was the pit boss. It was nice to take a break every once in awhile. So I asked if I could sit in the spots and somebody said sure, but their team would be back soon. I let them know when they do get back, I’ll be happy to move but I should be gone before then. So a friend and I sat there for a bit and I thought I saw somebody from their team so I got ready to move. As I was shuffling seats, I got in the way of another team for maybe 10 seconds and it’s like I just slapped their team captain. They started yelling at me saying how I was in their way and how I’m blocking their match. I moved but they could have been a little more polite. I realized that the other team I was sitting by wasn’t coming back so I went back to where I was sitting at the end of the match. About 2 minutes later, a man came and started yelling at my friend and I for sitting in their seats. So we stood up and the team that yelled at us before, yelled at us again. So we were getting yelled at by two teams at once. Thinking about it, I don’t know what really could have happened to prevent them from getting so mad at us besides them learning manners.
This brings to mind a policy I’ve seen at a con (GeekGirlCon specifically although others may have it as well).
If you are taking photographs of attendees, please respect those that do not wish to be photographed or recorded by asking permission to take pictures and avoiding anyone with a “do not photograph” sticker. Always request
If there was a sticker that people could put on their badge to allow them to opt out of touching, pinning, etc, it might make this more tolerable, as long as people will take the time to look for opt-outs and respect them.
Shouldn’t this be more of an opt-in?
The clothespin game doesn’t bug me anymore than that dopey ninja game the kids enjoy playing so much. The free hugs thing concerns me. It’s a sexual harassment suit waiting to happen.
Yes, the general population should not be assumed to be a part of the clothespin tagging game. I would propose something similar to humans vs zombies games played on college campuses– a clear armband or headband (hey, that sounds like a cool team giveaway!), no involving bystanders.
I like to keep my lanyard and ID clean, I think it looks better, I would not like to have to put a sticker on it that says “I choose to retain my right to personal space”.
Side note: I can understand people not wanting to be photographed, but I believe that most FIRST events (and I believe most cons) operate under a policy of you are allowing us to photograph you by choosing to be here. That is stated in the release I agree to each year and I have seen signs to that effect at events.
Two things about the Clothespin “Game”
How do you make sure everyone understands you can only do it to certain people? It isn’t like FIRST will put out a message, put up signs, and let anyone holding a clothespin the rules.
I personally don’t find it fun. Last year it made me uncomfortable. People on my team who thought it was fun would do it to me. I asked them to stop. When I did they asked me why I was trying to “kill their fun” I didn’t have anything else I could say which really frustrated me.
To some it is harmless fun, to others it isn’t. How you make the distinction between those who want to play and who don’t is incredibly important, and not nearly as simple as people make it out to be.
There is so much to do at any competition that there isn’t a legitimate argument that I’ve seen for allowing it at all. Why keep something going on if it makes anyone uncomfortable? When anyone says “This makes me uncomfortable”, that is the end of it, the behavior must stop.
I was slightly on edge about this throughout competitions because I don’t want someone doing something to me without my knowledge. It is like a prank. Would you pull a prank on someone you don’t know? Would you throw glitter on the heads of strangers without their consent or knowledge? Don’t put things on people, because you never know if they want you to do so unless you ask them.