2023 Champs team schedule

I was just curious about how the match schedules this year landed so many good teams in the bottom of the rankings. I know from previous years that this is not uncommon but it seem that this year there were a lot more than expected.

1)Consistency
2)how common RP worked this year and
3) there being not enough matches to converge towards the “real” strength of teams.

Also, “more than expected” is likely an average, so we will have above average years and below average years.

Is there any real “solution” that isn’t playing more matches?

  1. A ranking system adjustment, it may be best to move to a composite, something like RP * average match pts. (Although playing the tie breaker game in match strategy is fun)

  2. Fewer teams at champs for more matches. I can’t see squeezing in more divisions at a single event, but I am glad we are on a single champs.

That’s my 2¢ anyway.

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All four RPs this year we’re outside of any one team’s control (short of a rare few) . That made the extra RPs amplify schedule imbalances rather than reduce them.

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Not sure that would help much if at all. Bad schedules often consist of getting bad partners and losing matches because your alliance as a whole is below average. Take 2910 on galileo this year where despite being one of the best teams on the division, they got one of the worst schedules on the division due to being paired with below-average alliance partners and both ranked poorly and had an average match score significantly worse than what it would’ve been had they had an average schedule.

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Yeah, maybe match score isn’t the right metric, something a single team has power over would be ideal.

Balancing RP is difficult, unicorn matches should be pretty rare to that end.

This. This year’s game is a true team work game. For example, 2018 (I feel) could be won by one incredibly dominant robot. But this years game, and especially the RP, were impossible to do alone. The links were possible to do alone if you were some kind of ultra dominant powerhouse, and even that is a maybe. However, the charge station RP was literally impossible to do without competant alliance partners.

So why did so many amazing robots rank poorly at champs? FIRST constructed a game that couldn’t be won alone.

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Think 12 matches per team is doable if you cut the lunch break down or play an extra hour of matches each day.

Both of which are very not doable. 2 days straight of 8 to 6 (10 hours) quals is already very long and teams need their breaks.

The schedule this year had 16.5 hours for 10 qual matches and increasing that to 12 qual matches would require adding 3.3 hours at a minimum to the schedule which is not doable unless they do qual matches on Wednesday which also sounds infeasible

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Would adding something to the match scheduling app that checked the alliances average opr(i know it is a bad metric) and if there was a ± X amount of point difference re-roll the match alliances?

That’s fine, but why have extra RP in that case? What’s the point?

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No. Any form of this would introduce bias and punish teams for being good by repeatedly giving them below average partners. Additionally, OPR is not accurate until qualifications are done and OPR from previous events is usually not accurate.

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Agreed, and not just for the teams, but stretching out your volunteers even longer seems like a bad idea.

Any checking of OPR, DPR, CCWM, Elo, or EPA before the matches should be regarded as a very bad move, and get whoever added it in a chance to stand in front of a robot, on the field, right as auto starts.

Could it be nice to get more balanced matches? Sure, why not. Let’s assume that’s nice. All right, propose a method that is not team number tiers or tied to actually playing matches in any given year. I wish you the best of luck coming up with one…

The extra RPs still insulate you from some of the effect of having good teams on the opposing alliance, even if they do less to help you if you had weaker alliance partners. Also, one of the RP required you to have just one partner who could drive onto the charge station.

The reason rankings were so volatile was that the game was easier for teams than previous years. Both in the fact that solving all the game tasks was easier than past years, and also because the hardest challenge (scoring high cones) was extremely capped, and so the greatest comparative advantage for the best teams was not worth very much. Another factor is that adding a third scoring bot was more valuable than previous years, where a third bot would add less marginal offensive value and might be better playing defense. So there was a greater chance that three good bots could beat an exceptional bot.

I looked at the percentage OPR difference between the best team and 16th best team by OPR in Hopper, comparing 2023 and 2022. In 2023, the 1st team scored 34% more, while in 2022, the 1st team scored 54% more. Imperfect due to the nonlinear scoring this year, but I think it supports my point.

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