Does it have to be? 1323’s/WCP’s swerve is based off of aren’s design and we explicitly state it. Also love the Mk modules, hope to see them in person @ champs.
This is definitely an interesting topic to me. Here is my thoughts:
Everyone takes inspiration from somewhere when they design or create something, and we should all try to give credit where it is due. However, I don’t think we should expect every designer to put a disclaimer on every piece of work.
So giving credit is awesome whenever someone decides to do it. It’s how we recognize the giants behind the shoulders we stand on. But as an example, I wouldn’t expect VEX to have a note about team 60 or 254 on their versachasis, when people can’t even agree on the definition of a WCD. (But it would still be a nice gesture if they did)
In conclusion, I think Patrick’s stance is fair because if you don’t want someone to take ideas or inspiration from your work, you shouldn’t make it public. But duplicating an existing product just to compete with it is a little questionable.
The MK1 module without doubt takes a lot of inspiration from your original design and copies many features. The MK1 COTS and MK2 modules are the next iterations forward. I would never claim that I came up with the module on my own and I promise that the students on 2910 know it is heavily based on your design. It is a complete oversight on my part for not giving you credit on the actual product page itself. I genuinely feel bad about it. You are one of my engineering/design idols. I’m always rooting for you on battle bots!
971’s robot is looking great this year. Very fun to watch. I’m really looking forward to seeing it at champs.
Just curious, how so? Do you not support a free market? If there is no patent, and further more it is publically avaliable then I can’t see how anyone can complain that someone is using their work without credit. If someone wants that kind of recognition then they can either get it patented, and license the product to teams, or sue the mess out of anyone that violates the patent. And the other option is they don’t share at all, but even if they don’t share and someone else designs something similar, they now have little protection, so enjoy the secrecy while it lasts.
In my opinion it’s kinda dishonest to copy something somebody else has designed if you ask them and they say no. If they take that design and improve or change it somehow I think that’s fine but to just outright copy somebody when they ask you not to is a bit dishonest.
I intentionally didnt say it was necessary wrong. I don’t think that anything could be done to stop it, (without a patent) but I would understand if the designer frowned upon it, because the person making the duplicate product isn’t really contributing, just competing for competition’s sake.
Don’t need this to be about me, just trying to keep people cognizant of credit where it’s due when possible. I know sometimes the lines get blurry, but just keep an eye out for it.
I personally have benefited a lot from my FRC community involvement and want to help keep the community still able to provide some of the same opportunities I have been lucky enough to have.
I myself am getting better at crediting friends and teammates on various projects, still miss the occasional thing, but much of that 2014 module was designed while I was sitting next to Bryan Culver down at VEX, and we chatted A LOT about a lot of things, in addition I’ve built a lot of things with Dillon Carey, I’m sure something from him made it in there as well.
Battlebots is also a team effort, with a great crew of people (Including Bryan and Dillon)
Always game to talk swerve, or anything nifty really, sad I will miss seeing the 2910 bot at champs (please be in 971s division), come down to Chezy again (I’ll be at Battlebots)
Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but by the time you build up a drivetrain with these and spark maxes, etc, you used up like half of your total allowed budget already? That seems crazy
Well the drivetrain is the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd most important mechanism on your robot.
Especially if you are playing D.
Welcome to COTS swerve
2910 makes this stuff themselves, so it’s a lot cheaper.
Then they also release the cad…so technically nothing other than resources is stopping anyone else from making them too.
Source: 3D printed the mk1 modules last summer (then bought the modules from Patrick)
Hey! The drive looks awesome and performs even better. We built our swerve for the first time this year and I have a couple questions for you.
Why did you choose gears over belts, and what advantages would that have?
Also is the code for the drive available anywhere?
What was one of the biggest challenges you guys had in designing/building the drive?
The main reason for using gears is to have more flexibility with gear ratios
We (2910) are planning to release our 2910 code and robot CAD sometime late this spring or early summer. Our 2018 robot code is already available github.com/frcteam2910. This is also where 2019 code will be when it is released.
One of the biggest challenges was figuring out all the fixturing to efficiently machine the parts.
What failures did you you encounter over time and competition use if any?
We are definitely considering putting in an order for these soon.
If we ordered them now when can we realistically expect to get them?
Will individual parts be available to order? Such as the bevel gear and custom pulley?
We broke quite a few NEOs at our first district event by ramming them into the cargo ship and loading station. The top of the NEOs hit the overhanging part of bumper recess on those game elements. For our second event we had added our NEO protectors and haven’t had any issues since. This is a very Deep Space specific issue. Normally the field isn’t entering your frame perimeter right above your bumper zone.
We also broke a couple of the VersaWheels by hitting the steel tubing of the depot boarder at high speed. Thankfully the wheels are very quick to replace.
Besides these issues the modules were solid. This is over a 5 event 85 match season with 3 events of dropping from L2 of the Hab in sandstorm.
@BitSentinel Thank you for your interest. If you were to order them now, the ship date would be mid to late May.
@Phil_McJoe Individual parts will be available to order. The large bevel gear is the same as the MK1 module and is already available. At the moment, to order individual MK2 parts, please contact me and I’ll send a quote.