Team 241’s advisor wants us to settle for a 4 inch ramp instead of the teh foot. Would a robot with only a 4 inch lift still be an attractive choice for an ally in the finals?
that depends. What else can your robot do? Will it have a good game piece manipulator? Will it play defence? There are other factors to consider for alliance partners.
We have an arm design that will be moderatly efficient. and we plan to be able to play defense, but we can’t say anything for sure.
15 points is better than zero points…if it looks like you might not be successful designing and building a 12" system, but you can easily do a 4" system, then do what you can. 15 points is better than zero points (yes, I’m repeating myself)
I just dont feel like we should settle for 4 inches. With our design the ramp would be large enough for one robot and if we went for the foot the incline would only be 14.5 degrees. I think the team can do it, but our advisor disagrees.
You have to remember also that a lot of teams will be able to climb on a four inch ramp but not a twelve. We also looking at a four inch platform but with adjustments based on our alliance partners that will slide up to 12. This is if we have the height to store it before unfolding. We have not attached it yet. ALso, our arm works very good with the extension for the top row easy. And we can climb a 12 inch ram if needed.
I think the real question is why you are building a robot…
If the students want to build a 12 ramp then build it. “The robot is a vehicle to build better people not the other way around.” Sometimes taking the risk and failing is more productive then not trying to at all.
And one more thing, mentors are here to guide and explain not to decide and do.
Our team struggled with the decision about ramp size as well. We “fondly” remember flipping backward off last years ramps. We remember so many others doing the same. A 12" ramp, unless mated with a sufficiently long ramp so that a robot 1) does not have the tendency to flip backward 2) does not become high-centered on the transition from ramp up to flat top.
In the end, we settled on a 4" high platform with an extendable ramp that has about a 20 degree slope. Most 'bots, except for those with really low clearance, should be able to climb us. We will be extending twin side-by-side ramps so we can provide a platform for two partners.
There are other additions to our design, but they’re not important to this thread. Good luck with your design.
Our team is possibly going for the 12 in but yes I agree that the 12 in ramps will be harder for some robots to climb and a four inch would be much easier for a bot to move up without tipping.
I don’t want to get into an argument about it in this thread, but depending on their team’s structure, that may or may not be the truth. If you want to further discuss it, please go ahead and PM or IM me.
we are a rookie team but we are going to win the rookie all star award simply because we are wayzata. any ways we are going to go for 12 inches and we also have an ingenious plan that will let even weak robots climb onto us.
Here’s my philosophy on this subject. Three (and occasionally four) teams win a regional. That alliance needs to be able to work well together. If one of those partners can’t climb a 12" ramp, that’s a disadvantage to the alliance. But if they can climb a 4" ramp, then perhaps drafting a 4" ramp robot is the best thing.
That said, a 4" ramp robot may be well-served to have some other functionality, either in defense, offense, or some other nifty trick we haven’t thought of yet.*
Alright here is my honest opinion…
A good robot in this game will be the robot that is consistant just like every other year. If you can score constantly or if you can promise your alliance partners those ramp scores after the end of each match, your team wil go a long way. Also, strategy is very important in each match. Teams will scout all day long and evaluate you comparing to what they are looking for as an alliance partner.
… As a team, you guys should decide what you would like to do and make sure your drivers are trained enough to be consistant at it every single time you guys go out to the field.
Good luck this season.
In the past, we have found that “Jack-of-all trades” robots are never as good as consistent robots with fewer features. If you can reliably provide an extra 15pts to every match, then you would be an attractive alliance partner for that reason alone. Consistency is key.
EDIT: I see Arefin beat me to the same message, he knows just as well as I do. Consistency is Key. We were ranked 79th or so on Curie in 05 and got picked and won the division because we were ranked 6th in scoring consistency. (That was according to team 66 i believe who scouted and provided that info)
From a strategy standpoint if one of your teammates can make it up the 12 ramp for 30 points and the other teammate can continue capping, that will be more advantageous than having 2 teammates back at 12 inches for 30 points.
I do not know your situation with your mentors but sometimes they will underestimate what students can do so thats something you have to work around/with. What you go for should really be democratically decided as a team with everyone(mentors students parents etc.) getting a vote for what they want to do.
Does your advisor have physical evidence to back his/her opinion up?
Or does he/she not feel you have the capability to do the 12" ramp?
Something doesn’t seem right from my point of view. I don’t mind your advisor disagreeing, but he/she should encourage your ideas and help you make them a reality. Our team decided to go with a mecanum drive this year, and many engineers said to us that it will be a great challenge. They never said “Don’t do it”.
This is so true.
I agree with Arefin & Evan, doing one or two things really well and consistently is far better than doing a lot of things inconsistently.
Of course, the key is to anticipate what will “win” the “game”. For example, in last year’s game, a team that could score well enough to win autonomous (almost every time) AND climb the ramp consistently did not really have to do much of anything else to win the game. Sure, you needed someone who could score a little, and sometimes you lost from a technical issue, a weak alliance, or a strong alliance opposing - but 80% of the time, your alliance won.
Don
A four inch ramp would work great during qualification matches because you are paired with a diverse group of robots that have varied drive train abilities. The four inch ramp would obviously be easier to attain peak upon if it maintains the same amount of run. A twelve inch ramp would be a more attractive choice for the teams choosing alliances because their robot would most likely have a drive train with the torque and grip to make it up twelve inches in elevation. Obviosly a twelve inch peak on the ramps would be a more attractive choice over a four inch peak due the fifteen more attainable bonus points which should come in handy during eliminations.
Obviously the best choice for an arm bot to choose for an alliance partner would be the ramp bot that would be able to get them the most points, consistently. This would mean a robot that can elevate 2 robots 12 inches off the ground every time. Repeatability is key. I can guarantee you as a returning student that a team that can elevate the 2 robots (maybe even one) off the ground 100% of the time will be picked over a robot that can elevate 1 or 2 robots 12 inches off the ground sometimes. (Confusing sentence I know)
Another key attribute is what else your robot can do. If it is an outstanding defensive robot and/or has a strong drive train and chassis, then that will help make that bot better.
You mentioned that your robot would have an arm that would be okay. If your arm can score even a few times that will be huge for a ramp bot.
I agree with you when you said that a robot that can elevate other robots 12 inches off the ground is better than 4 inches. If you feel strongly about this then tell your mentor and see if they can incorporate it. Mentors are supposed to help and be open to student opinions.
I am interested about what you will decide to do so let me know what happens (and eventually how you do at competition), so PM me if you want. Good Luck!
I think it would be a good choice for a alli bot cuz as long as the team picking you has an arm they could score the points while you may defend them and at the end of the match hop on your bot and score the extra points. So, most deffinently.