501c3 organizations, FIRST, and robotics teams

A lot of teams could benefit from being 501c3 teams, for lots of various reasons. It takes some work to set this up.

My team has a booster organization through ParentBooster, USA. One of the benefits of forming like this is that we gained instant 501c3 status through PBUSA’s group exemption. The requirements (roughly) are that we maintain a relationship with PBUSA (through annual fees), and that they maintain a roster of the organizations that are members.

This structure for PBUSA got me thinking about FIRST. We pay an annual registration fee to FIRST. In return, they keep our team number active, and they maintain a roster of active teams. FIRST is a 501c3 organization. It seems (IANAL) that they could request a group determination from the IRS and pass the ability to be part of the group on to all registered (US Based) teams, giving any team the ability to just “BE” a 501c3 group member, gaining all the benefits of the status. Teams could choose to incorporate and form a board (this is separate from the 501c3 status), and govern themselves appropriately, but being able to gain the group status would really help teams from a fundraising and sponsorship side of things.

Is there someone smarter than me that could help explain why this would, or wouldn’t, work? It seems like a great value-add for FIRST that would require little extra effort on their part, and give teams a huge new avenue to become sustainable.

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This seems like a great idea. We 100% oughta get the ball rolling and push FIRST HQ to do something like this. Would make going through people like Hack Club no longer necessary, too. (Not that Hack Club is bad or anything, though.)

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It would probably add way more work then you might think. PBUSA and HCB are setup as a parent organization for small clubs and, as far as I can tell, don’t do anything outside of that. Vs FIRST is running all their programs already. They would essentially need to spin up a whole group to solely support the “booster” side of things, helping teams manage reimbursements, make sure they are uploading receipts, etc. It also would complicate their own IRS filings every year as now they need to manage the reporting for all of these teams, not just themselves.

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But these are tasks (reimbursements, receipts, etc) that PBUSA doesn’t do either. They don’t help the booster on its day-to-day operations. The only thing they really need to do is remind us that our 990 is due. If I neglect to do this, I risk my own organizations status as a 501c3 member of the group, but does not affect PBUSA.

They helped me file and incorporate, but this was a state process that wasn’t really needed to be part of the group (just was recommended).

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Ohh, I was thinking it was more like HCB where they are the 501c3 and manage the filings.

Yeah, they basically help you form booster, get incorporated, provide educational information. Technically, once our organization has operating funds to file our own request for 501c3 status (and wait for the IRS to grant it), there is not really even a reason to continue to be a member of the PBUSA organization, other than the educational resources and filing reminders.

I think this could be something that FIRST-HQ could do (at least for US teams) which would be a pretty great service for many teams.

In the meanwhile, I would remind you that in some locales, aligning with 4H may well be worth your time to consider.

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Hey, I just want to chime in here as founder of Hack Club - which provides 501(c)(3) status to many teams through HCB.

I’m a FRC alumni and wish our team had this. We always had trouble with our school and nobody on the team ever knew how much money we had between the school account and a separate personal bank account one of the mentors opened.

If anyone has any questions about HCB, my email is [email protected]. I can either help directly, or get you in touch with the right person.

We are a small team of about 8 people running HCB in Shelburne, Vermont. I also want to add that we are a charity ourselves and see serving FIRST teams as a “program goal”, not a “revenue goal” - basically meaning that the 7% fee covers our operating costs including having audited financials and tax filings covered for FIRST teams, but don’t make any meaningful profit from serving them.

Almost any team will certainly save money by running through HCB.

It will almost always cost you more money (and a heck of a lot more time) to run your own 501(c)(3), unless you are working with something like a $300K budget (and even then, we serve many non-FIRST groups with budgets over $500K that did the math and it was cheaper to work with us).

Some teams pull it off, but in our experience many teams that have their own 501(c)(3)s have 1 mentor who “knows how it all works”, and everyone else is out of the loop.

This creates problems like poor bookkeeping and lack of transparency on how much funds you have and where they are going. Many teams also miss filing deadlines or end up out of compliance with state charity laws without realizing it.

This creates “fundraising opportunity cost”. I often speak with donors who want to fund groups, but the group is not set up with their DAF provider or with their employer match program (like Benevity) or has out of date documents - which either blocks the gift entirely, or makes giving the gift inconvenient.

I don’t have stats to back it up yet, but I wouldn’t be surprised if the average team raises more money after joining HCB because it solves all of these problems.

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FIRST already has so many of the systems in place to make this work, and while it would take some effort on their end to implement, the long-term benefits for teams could be massive.

Right now, FIRST collects an annual registration fee from all active teams, which isn’t just a money grab—it’s how they maintain their database of team numbers, track active participation, and keep things organized. On top of that, they’re already a 501(c)(3) organization themselves. These two things—being a nonprofit and keeping a roster of active U.S.-based teams—are the foundational pieces for creating a group exemption. If FIRST applied for this group determination with the IRS, they could essentially extend their nonprofit status to all registered teams that opt in.

From a team perspective, gaining 501(c)(3) status this way could be a game-changer. First off, fundraising would get so much easier. Donors often want some kind of verification that their money is going to a legit nonprofit, and having that status opens up the ability to receive tax-deductible donations. Not to mention, there are grants and sponsorship opportunities that flat-out require nonprofit status to even apply. For teams that are already struggling to make ends meet, this could be a lifeline.

The current process of setting up a standalone 501(c)(3) is no joke. You have to file for incorporation with your state, fill out IRS Form 1023 (which is a beast), pay the application fee, and wait months for approval. Plus, you need to maintain compliance with nonprofit laws, file annual reports, and handle other administrative work. It’s worth it for teams that have the capacity, but for a lot of teams—especially those run entirely by volunteers—it’s overwhelming. By having FIRST offer this as a group option, teams could skip all that red tape and focus on things that actually impact their programs, like mentoring students, building robots, and running outreach events.

Of course, this isn’t just free money for FIRST teams—there would be responsibilities. For this to work, FIRST would likely need to monitor teams in the group to ensure they’re following nonprofit rules. For example, teams would need to avoid political activities (since 501(c)(3)s are prohibited from endorsing candidates but it’s not really something I see a lot of in robotics but they do legally need to make sure of this) and make sure their funds are used in ways that align with their mission. FIRST might require teams to submit some basic annual reports or financial statements to prove compliance. It’s not that this is unreasonable—it’s just something FIRST would need to be prepared to handle, and it adds a layer of complexity to their operations.

There’s also the question of whether FIRST would want to take on this responsibility in the first place. Managing a group exemption isn’t a small task, especially when you’re talking about potentially thousands of teams. They’d need staff to handle the IRS filings, track which teams are part of the group, and deal with any issues that pop up, like if a team mismanages funds or doesn’t follow nonprofit guidelines. It’s doable, but it would require an investment on their end.

Another thing to consider is that some teams might not even want to be part of this setup. For example, school-based teams might already fall under their district’s nonprofit umbrella, so they wouldn’t see much benefit. Other teams might have already gone through the process of becoming a 501(c)(3) independently and wouldn’t want to give up their autonomy to join a group. FIRST would probably need to make this an opt-in system rather than a blanket change, which adds another layer of complexity.

That said, the potential upside is massive. For newer or resource-strapped teams, this could provide a level of financial stability that’s currently out of reach. It would also be a huge selling point for FIRST itself—imagine being able to say that by registering, your team automatically gains access to nonprofit status. That’s a pretty big incentive to join or stay involved.

In the end, I think this idea is 100% worth exploring. It might not be a perfect fit for every team, but for those that need it, it could make a world of difference. The next step would probably be getting someone with experience in nonprofit law or IRS group exemptions to weigh in on the details. If the community rallied around this and showed FIRST how much of an impact it could have, I could totally see it becoming a reality.

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I realize they vary from state to state, but for us, becoming a 4H team makes so many of these problems just go away for us.

If you are a community team w/o a 501c3 or struggling with it, this could be another option worth exploring.

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@zrl I don’t know the answer to this, however it’s possible you would.
Does the 501c3 fiscal sponsor prevent teams from competing for grants the 501c3 has already applied for?

My guess is FIRST has a large amount of revenue (>10%) from grants.

Previously we have run into this issue, where our previous 501c3 parent org had applied for grants that we were looking to apply to as well.

I do think there’s a sweet spot, between 50k-300k where that makes sense, especially when it’s just a 990. The tax software required for above 50k costs about 10k. Many 501c3 teams just end up paying a CPA with the software to do their taxes. Luckily, when we set ours up, we were already thinking about CPAs in our network of parents, mentors and alumni.

So as usual I don’t claim to be an expert, but we just went through this process using legal zoom, we paid for all the rush fees for our state (NY) and got back everything completed with our determination letter in like 2 weeks, it cost us $1100 all in through them. We were also able to use IRS Form 1023-EZ which was pretty simple to fill out.

Now with that said I’m not saying this process was/is easy/for everyone, but it wasn’t as bad as we personally were expecting. There’s still all the upkeep every year that has to be done as well which we haven’t gone through yet. Getting group determination through FIRST would be sweet though!

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Just to point this out, if your team brings in less than $50K in revenue annually, the 1023EZ form is available. Typical turnaround time is within a month.

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It depends on the sponsor, but we don’t.

Yeah we did the 1023EZ and that was about a week turnaround, took maybe another month for it to show up on in the database, and a few more weeks for snail mail. If pursuing the 1023 I would definitely get some assistance, it’s fairly intense.

FWIW, we did the 1023EZ, but for whatever unknown reason it did not get the quick approval, so it had to go wait on someone’s desk, with the threat of a government shutdown looming. When someone finally looked at it, it was resolved trivially (again, we never knew what the holdup was), and we were approved. But for us, it took a few months, and we actually missed out on received a major grant because we weren’t yet a 501c3. It took a bit longer before we could be found on the IRS website, etc.

The moral of the story is that you aren’t fully in control, so while it might not be “difficult”, get started as soon as you can, as things will be much easier when others can simply find your non-profit registration.

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If you can build a robot you can fill out IRS Form 1023, it’s just taking some time. I think it took me maybe 15 minutes to do the form and we had an IRS determination letter within a month. Forming the corporation before applying for non profit status is slightly more complicated but really is just filling out a form until you move past stock articles of incorporation.

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Starting a 501c3 isn’t that hard, it takes a little bit of time and money.

If I were at Firsts Headquarters I would be reluctant to do a group determination to include teams because there would be a mountain of compliance work and it would change the nature of the team/first relationship.

  • First teams per the IRS would have to be " Subject to the central organization’s general supervision or control" which outside of robot competitions is totally lacking. First has no idea of out teams budgets, how we fundraise, how we operate and they’d have to have some understanding of this in order to not lose their non profit status. You have to submit a document with the subordinate rules teams have to follow and they would need to be some level of enforcement HQ would have to do.
  • Every subordinate would have to provide written documentation that they’ve agreed to everything, that could be thousands of documents and first needs to keep all of their names, addresses etc. up to date. That becomes another administrative task.
  • A group determination on districts that would make sense

The other issue is first would have some responsibility over all teams functioning as non profits. The biggest issue teams are going to run into are donations for personal benefit, say you qualify for worlds and travel to Houston and the 501c3 is involved in travel, your payment for travel to worlds isn’t a charitable deduction.

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I don’t ever see First providing blanket 501-C coverage. One of the jobs of the non profit corporation is to maintain on oversight and documentation on how the funds are spent. To do that require the team to report how the funds were spent in an auditable way to First. A short version of what Tradesurplus said.

Team dues and contributions for individual benefit are generally not tax deductible for the individual making the payment. Maybe. There are a few exceptions. It is for the individual to read the law and make that determination. It is best for the non profit not to comment. It not a not a problem for the non-profit. For us the travel puts us over the level were we can use the short 550 form.

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I’m a fan of Hack Club (not to mention the moments I miss living in Chittenden County), and have referred folks your direction, but I believe this is hyperbole, and I believe that should raise caution flags for readers.

Your other statements (e.g. having a non-school, non-501(c)(3) team convert to HCB team net helps them in most cases) seem reasonable, but 7% overhead would be a massive hit to our organization and ability to deliver our programs (not just FRC). Some of that 7% is mitigated because it covers credit card fees, which we do pay now, but 7% is still a big number (more than 10X the total financial fees we pay today). I agree running a 503(c)(3) takes (a lot of) time, but I’m skeptical how much of that really goes away with HCB. Only a slice of time we net spend on the 501(c)(3) administration is really the financial items HCB covers.

I suspect the evidence you are seeing is selection bias - the folks having trouble are certainly the ones leveraging your services. This is true in any market, that there are different levels of customer skill or scale of deeply involved people, and thus different levels of needed support.

I am familiar with numerous teams running under independent 501(c)(3)s, have been a board member on two, and multiples of the ones I’m aware of have had turnover in the board, along with the Treasurer and/or bookkeeper leaving and they haven’t had issues.

I’d recommend teams assess their own ability to do the work (or grow to that point) and talk to others (including those of us here on CD) who are part of non-school associated 501(c)(3)s. (I’m happy to do so if folks want to send me a PM here). Once you do the assessment, HCB may be the right path, but just assuming that without doing some homework is not a good plan, IMHO.

Agree, it’s a distraction to what they are doing. What would they do relative to HCB anyway, compete on price? Not valuable to our community. If someone really needs it, there are many options (4H and Hack Club as two examples).

Having been the Treasurer for two 501(c)(3)s operating FRC teams, I disagree it’s not a problem for the non-profit. As a 501(c)(3), you should be prepared to answer two questions: (1) “Can I get a tax deductible receipt for that payment?” and (2) “Can I pay through Benevity (or some equivalent)?”.

In the former case, you have to decide whether to give one, and if you do, how to comply with all the requirements for a receipt.

In the latter case, you will likely be tempted by some parent including a comment about “the non-profit gets a match”, and you have to provide clear direction.

These absolutely make it the non-profit’s problem (a legal problem, a customer service problem and a Benevity terms of service problem). My advice is to ensure your 501(c)(3) has access to legal support who can answer the legal part of that question. Getting advice on the Internet really isn’t a great path.

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