60 inch clarifiction

If we can reach beyond the 60 " circle but limit that reach to 60" via software, and fit within the 28 x 38 foot print at measuring, will we pass inspection?

Our playing configuration would be limited to 60" but our arm could be pulled at inspection out further ?

I would tell you what the past ruleing on this (2008) was, but that’s irrelevant.

You should check the Q&A forum for this question or ask it yourself.

The 60 inch cylinder rule (see this thread for a discussion, since there is a mismatch in the dimensions in <R11>) applies during competition. You should ask for an official ruling about what will be required to pass inspection, but you only violate the rule if you exceed the cylinder dimension (whether that cylinder is 60 inches or 213.4 cm) during game play.

I dont have the reference handy, but my understanding is that the judges would measure what is physically possible, not how it is intended to be used. The example in the manual was specific to weight, but think it applies here as well. I’ll post the reference when i have a chance to look at the manual.

the way i look at it you must stay within the 60 inch cylinder the duration of the game. It doesnt matter how tall you a re but if you reach outside it they may notice and may disqualify you until you change it. I think it would be best for you just to try and stay within the limitations stated on pg. 9 of the robot section. hope that helps

The 60" cyl. volume is a rule relevant during game play, not an inspection point. Inspectors look for compliance to the inspection list. If they see a static condition on your bot that vilolates a robot rule, they will call it. If your bot is physically capable of breaking the 60" rule, they may give you a dire warning about it, but it is the field official’s job to determine if you broke the envelope. Part of their method of doing so may be to measure what it is capable of, and make a judgement on whether it happened. Obviously the best advice is to stay away from issue and not be capable of breaking the envelope, but that is a risk judgement you have to make.

This by no means confirms it for this year, but the same Cylinder Rule (70" though) was around in 2007 with the tubes, and 1511 had an arm that made the robot 93" diameter at one extension. It was programmed to stay within the cylinder, and in inspection they had us “run” the robot to verify it.

We did have a potentiometer break in one of our matches so our arm accidentally extended outside the box and the referees called for a re inspection. We were fortunate we basically got that “warning” as they could have penalized us.

We realized from that we needed a back-up “Manual Mode” in which whenever the sensors might be broken we had full manual control so the programming didnt force us into positions where we would violate the rules. The drivers then had to be very careful to stay in configurations that we knew were “safe”.

So my “guess” is that yes your robot can be physically capable of going outside the 60" cylinder, as long as it does not during a match, but it is worth confirmation in the Q&A.

Just a clarification , please ? Does the rule mean a 60" radius eminating from the center of your robot, or a 30" radius ? I’m a little confused ( which doesn’t take too much, these days )

It means that at any time during the match, a theoretical 60 inch DIAMETER cylinder could be placed on the field such that it completely encapsulates your robot (in any of its configurations during the match). The cylinder does NOT need to be “centered” about some center of your robot.

One of our alumni made this drawing.
The outside rectangle is the bumper perimeter, the inside rectangle is the frame perimeter (assuming the 60" not metric). Hopefully it helps you visualize (and realize that 60" is SMALL.





I could be wrong but wasn’t it a 70" cube?

One could always gasp, make a smaller than maximum sized robot.:ahh:

Blending years in my head… 2008 was an 80" cylinder<R16>, 2007 was 72" width x 72" depth <R12> (both years we had 2 jointed arms).

Some new information: The rules have changed, we are now allowed an 84" cylinder.

See Team Update #1:

http://www.usfirst.org/uploadedFiles/Robotics_Programs/FRC/Game_and_Season__Info/2011_Assets/Team_Updates/Team%20Update_01.pdf

Even though the diameter has changed to 84" the method of inspection will remain the same. If your robot were designed that it could extend beyond the limit, you would be required to prove to an inspector that software is limiting the travel or extended size. The inspector would then notify the Head Ref who will watch your robot in action to be sure that the software or hardware limit is functioning as intended. The Head Ref can call for a re-inspect at any time to determine compliance or to recalibrate his(hers) vision.