9th Seed not Getting Picked for Elims?

Hey guys,
I was wondering if any of you have ever been in the position where your team placed 9th in quals and didn’t get picked for elims?

This year at the MN state championships, we seeded 5th (With the top 4 teams being alliance captains) and were almost certain we would go on, but to our surprise, we didn’t. Our drive team was absolutely stellar the whole time, which further confused us. I know we didn’t have our full scouting team so we didn’t go around and sell ourselves to the top teams, but even so, I would’ve thought our performance would’ve been enough.

I’m not mad about it, per se, more curious if you guys have had experiences similar to this.

Also, congrats to the winners of the MN State Championship! I can’t recall team #'s atm, but it was a great event all aroun and you all deserved the win.

P.S. Huge shoutout to 2052 Knightkrawlers! You guys were so awesome at 10,000 Lakes, Champs, and MHSL! One of our mentors is an alum of yours and he has done so much for our team and really is one of the main reasons we got as far as we did this year.

Yeah… 2012 at CMP. Seeded 9th did not play in the afternoon (79)

To seed 9th and not make elims would also imply no interpicking amongst alliance captains. It happens but at most competitions at least one interpick occurs. That must be a really dissapointing experience T_T

2001 at Champs. (err…Nationals)

We were in the top 8 for most of the competition, then lost one match, fell to 10th. Did not get selected.

I just want to say that you guys did amazing at state and built a great bot that honestly more teams should have built something similar to.

I was the captain out on the field and made the call for the first alliance to pick 4778. You guys were next on our list but ultimately we went with stormbots because they had a consistent hot high goal auton and could truss or pass back to the hp depending on what our alliance needed.

I’ve seen it happen before, and I’ve seen teams that I’ve been sure would be playing sitting in the stands during elims. Scouting is a difficult task for everyone - you’re attempting to gather imperfect information in order to make a decision that ultimately affects your ability to win the competition. Even the best scouting systems out there aren’t perfect.

The State Championship this past weekend saw an incredibly even field during qualifications. From my view watching most of the matches, there weren’t any robots that really stood out above the others, and there weren’t any that were bad. Anyone could have been in any alliance during elims… at that point the scouters were making decisions based on very small differences.

Additionally, this game presents an interesting difference from previous games. Previously, you could more or less figure out who would be picked based on a simple point differential - each alliance would take the first available team who can either score the most points or prevent the other alliance from scoring the most. This year, there was a lot more strategy involved, looking for robots who could fill specific roles - in bounder, trusser, assister, scorer. It didn’t pay to get two robots that were the best in one of those roles.

One of the most famous ones I remember is 610 at FLR in 2009.

They were seeded 9th, and declined an invitation from an alliance. None of the top 8 picked each other after that, leaving 610 to sit out on Saturday afternoon.



Thank you so much! You have no idea how much that means coming from an awesome team like you guys. Your team had by far one of the most impressive machines there and I know a lot of our guys were oogleing at your bot between matches.

We moved up to ninth at Champs this year after the first round of picks and sat out. It happens.

I don’t know what the rules were in 2009, but for atleast the last 4 years, if you are outside the top 8 seeded teams and decline an invitation, you’re done anyway.

Not if you get bumped into the top 8 by in-picking. It only prevents you from being picked, not picking.

Now I’m curious if a team in the top 8 or gets bumped into the top 8 can decline an alliance captain spot on the basis of a non-functioning robot (a reason you’d decline an invitation from outside the top 8 most of the time).

If someone picks out of the top 8, the 9th seed becomes an alliance captain. If another team is picked from the top 8, the 10th seed becomes a captain. So if you decline when you’re out of the top 8 you’re taking a gamble, but you’re not completely done.

Edit: I got ninja’d…

In 2011 at West Michigan, 2153 declined their bumped-up invitation to be #8 captain, IIRC, for traveling-home reasons. So, it’s happened.

Right - but if there had been interpicking there, the #9 seed would have moved up and had the right to select their own alliance (What I’m assuming 610 was going for in that instance). Still, a harsh lesson in “you never know what’s going to happen”. Yeowch.

Edit:: Someone else beat me to it. Oops.

That was self inflicted. And a lesson to any team outside the top 8.

That is much more common. A team could be as low as the 17th seed in that situation.

There’s two corollaries:

  1. The seedings this year were much more often defined by the alliance partners a team had. A team at IER this year made the top 8 even though it was just a drive train.

  2. Teams had to pick much more for specific roles on the field. We were a midfielder, but so was 868 in Newton who was second. We needed a front court robot and 1114 fit the bill. We could see that choice being made down through the first round of selections.

I have heard:

‘We thought you had already been picked.’


‘We never thought you would be available when we were picking, so we crossed you off our list.’

Just goes to show you that teenagers put center-stage and forced to make a significant decision with only a few minutes consideration can make mistakes. Who’d a thunk it?

I would say that was a case of poor planning or lack of attention to detail, not some issue with teenage abilities.

That sounds about right, since it seems about 10% of teams asked to join an alliance at any given event are not actually at that event. :ahh: